Alternatives
Question:
>A lot of what are refered to as "Ozone Generators" are "ionisors". >Thes are very unlikely to produce ozone and actually work as dust (and >pollen) precipitators. If you have one you know they will be covered in >dust after a short time. These weork in a similar way to the industrial >units that clean the dust from flue gases. >One reason they get called ozone generators is the (mistaken) belief >that the fresh smell at the seaside was ozone.
The unit we are discussing is _designed_ to produce ozone. Generally an ionizer or electrostatic filter will have a certificate stating that it has been tested and does not produce ozone. ‘Reply to’ address changed to foil email spammers.
Response:
Hi Scott…..Perhaps you can help out here. Alpine says that thier new cetification is in regards to the amount of ozone being generated by it’s safe for residential use, occupied spaces etc….and indeed the documents which Alpine of course speedily got out into circulation in the network DOES say this. I originally thought that CSA/UL just did the stuff you mentioned, essentially saying that the thing was fairly idiot-proof and would not self-destruct in an unreasonably high percentage. Perhaps they are widening thier scope of influence? or…? Thanks Scott Jerry
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I’m sure you’ve heard of these before, but you really should look into an >Alpine air purifier..they do a really good job of minimizing dust mite >feces in air and carpets by breaking them down by oxidation. dust mites >feed mostly on dead skin particles which we all shed continuously…the >units will break down those particles to, and keep them becoming airborne >by ionization. This will address the problem at its source instead of >forcing you to take drugs to combat the symptoms. If youd like some >information, e-mail me. > Why are you selling an ozone generator to asthmatics? Ozone is a EPA > regulated pollutant and an OSHA regulated hazardous chemical. > In addition _any_ ozone exposure is considered to be harmful to > asthmatics.
Hi, Looked at historically, ozone seems to be treatment with intercurrent disease. Examples were treatment with iodine and using x-rays and malaria. Friedel – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> BTW, the only real air filtration standard in existance is a Mil-Spec > (Military Specification). The only units that meet this spec are HEPA > units. >Cheers, Gerhardt > ‘Reply to’ address changed to foil email spammers.
Response:
>Hello….by now Im sure you’ve gotten several responses from people who >are howling about the horrors of Alpine air purification units. Most of >these people are self-proclaimed experts who , when you read the fine >print are either heating/ac guys or consumers posing as "authorities". >Most of these folks havent done all thier homework on what could be >considered a fairly complex subject.
FYI, my training was in the hazmat industry. Prior to developing asthma I dealt with poisonus/toxic/infectious/radioactive substances for a living. In fact it was the Alpine salesmen who first got me intrested in asthma quackery. You are selling a product that is dangerous to your intended market. You can claim that thunderstorms put out ozone (they do) but you cannot dispute the scientific research that has concluded that ozone at any concentration is harmful to asthmatics. >The machine you saw at the trade show was probably an XL-15. It and its >smaller cousin, the model 880 just got certified by CSA/UL as being safe >for residential use. Its hard to argue with that.
Please post _exactly_ what tests were performed on the product. You claim to have the CSA/UL data – why don’t you post it here? ‘Reply to’ address changed to foil email spammers.
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Hello….by now Im sure you’ve gotten several responses from people who >are howling about the horrors of Alpine air purification units. Most of >these people are self-proclaimed experts who , when you read the fine >print are either heating/ac guys or consumers posing as "authorities". >Most of these folks havent done all thier homework on what could be >considered a fairly complex subject. > FYI, my training was in the hazmat industry. Prior to developing > asthma I dealt with poisonus/toxic/infectious/radioactive substances > for a living. > In fact it was the Alpine salesmen who first got me intrested in > asthma quackery. You are selling a product that is dangerous to your > intended market. You can claim that thunderstorms put out ozone (they > do) but you cannot dispute the scientific research that has concluded > that ozone at any concentration is harmful to asthmatics. >The machine you saw at the trade show was probably an XL-15. It and its >smaller cousin, the model 880 just got certified by CSA/UL as being safe >for residential use. Its hard to argue with that. > Please post _exactly_ what tests were performed on the product. You > claim to have the CSA/UL data – why don’t you post it here? > ‘Reply to’ address changed to foil email spammers.
Colin, Jerry faxed me the info from CSA. The only thing it says is that the machine puts out less than .04ppm ozone. This testing lab does not make any other claims. To the casual observer, this may seem impressive. But the fact remains, ozone is a lung irritant and all the CSA documemtation states is the ozone output of the machine. It makes no statement as to the safety of the machine. Which is a good thing, because then we could sue them. Jerry, I still have no data, in all my searches, that states an ozone generator is beneficial or even SAFE for anyone, let alone an asthma sufferer. bill
Response:
This is complicated, but i’ll tyr to make it simple. Ozone is a molecule of oxygen (O3). Ozone is explosive. It is formed when oxygen is exposed to the silent discharge of electricity. It is a more active form of oxygen which is both antiseptic and disinfectant. However, in the pulmonary system, it is both irritating and toxic. Bsically this means that, if inhaled in concentrated enough situations or over a long period of time, it could be fatal. It produces what are known as oxygen free radicals in the body which disrupt the normal function of cells. In the lungs it can cause what is known as pulmonary fibrosis if the exposure is in small amounts over long periods of time, or chemical pneumonitis, wheich will require mechanical ventilation (a tube down your throat and connected to a breathing machine), if the exposure is of significant concentration. I hope this helps. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Can you tel me more about why the ozone machines are bad for asthmatics? I > walked by one at a trade show and went back to sniff for awhile cuz it seemed > to really feel good and fresh. My husbands reponse was that it smelled weird. > I almost bought one and am pretty new to having asthma. Thanks
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Can you tel me more about why the ozone machines are bad for asthmatics? I >walked by one at a trade show and went back to sniff for awhile cuz it seemed >to really feel good and fresh. My husbands reponse was that it smelled weird. >I almost bought one and am pretty new to having asthma. Thanks >See my web site and follow the link titled ‘ozone generators’ >http://home.pacbell.net/colin/index.html >BTW, if you can smell ozone then you are being exposed to a dangerous >amount. When I worked in the hazmat industry we used electronic >monitoring devices because ozone is dangerous at levels that are not >detectable by smell. >’Reply to’ address changed to foil email spammers.
A lot of what are refered to as "Ozone Generators" are "ionisors". Thes are very unlikely to produce ozone and actually work as dust (and pollen) precipitators. If you have one you know they will be covered in dust after a short time. These weork in a similar way to the industrial units that clean the dust from flue gases. One reason they get called ozone generators is the (mistaken) belief that the fresh smell at the seaside was ozone. — Geoff Hockley
Response:
>Here we go again…an Alpine unit is NOT a filter..hence no spec. Why >Don’t you call CSA/UL and ask them just exactly it is that they’re >doing???
FYI, Mil. Spec 282 applies to the filtering of contiminants out of the air. For obvious reasons, the military and the hazmat industry are all very picky about filtering all of the nasty stuff out of the air. And you are correct that the Alpine unit is not a filter. It is an ionizer. This means that instead of trapping airborne contiminants, it drops them onto any surface underneath. Of course the particles can become airborne with the slightest of air currents. For this reason ionizers are considered the _worst_ method of air filtration. Haven’t you ever wondered why the military, the hazmat people and HVAC people _don’t_ use ionizers? ‘Reply to’ address changed to foil email spammers.
Response:
> Don’t you call CSA/UL and ask them just exactly it is that they’re > doing???
My account still works, so I can clairfy this: I believe Underwriter’s Labratories will test to see if the product will set itself on fire, electrocute someone, etc. under normal use. The UL also endorses power tools, many of which are *very* dangerous if misused. Astmatics are at a higher risk group for poisioning than most people, so we have to be extra acreful about what we breathe. Since OSHA, the EPA, Consumer Reports, and everyone I know (Colin Campbell, my sister the chemical engineer, every doctor I’ve spoken to who has an opinion) *ALL* think ozone is bad, and UL doesn’t normally test for ozone output, and the products cost money, it seems like the body of evidence is that there’s enough ozone in the air already without making more. If you have contrary proof, contact the EPA and OSHA and Consumer’s Reports directly, since they’re more qualified to make the decision than I. I’ve used the cheaper, very effective add-on furnace filters with no problems. You can get them at hardware stores, home centers, and some discount stores (they come in a a variety of brands, and I don’t promote any single company.) Scott T.
Response:
> Can you tel me more about why the ozone machines are bad for asthmatics? I > walked by one at a trade show and went back to sniff for awhile cuz it seemed > to really feel good and fresh. My husbands reponse was that it smelled weird. > I almost bought one and am pretty new to having asthma. Thanks
Hello….by now Im sure you’ve gotten several responses from people who are howling about the horrors of Alpine air purification units. Most of these people are self-proclaimed experts who , when you read the fine print are either heating/ac guys or consumers posing as "authorities". Most of these folks havent done all thier homework on what could be considered a fairly complex subject. To clear the air, so to speak…There is NO ONE piece of equipment, no drug, no herb, no treatment that will provide the same results for everybody. One persons trash is another persons treasure. There are people here that would have you believe that they were quite literally driven to thier knees and suffered a week of illness after a mere 15 minute of exposure to the ozone produced by an XL-15. If that were true you would have gotten ill simply by putting your face in front of the unit….. It you go outside after a thunderstorm you’ll experience about .15 parts per million of ozone..thats the "clean" smell you would have noticed. Does that make you sick? I think not. An Alpine unit makes less than .04 parts of ozone, about a quarter of what the thunderstorm did. All I say is try a machine, see if it works for you. If it doesnt..thats ok. It DOES work, and quite well for a LOT of people out there. Well over a million as a matter of fact. I’ve sold so many of these things that I’ve lost count….and NOT ONE person has ever come back to me with a complaint….(of course some people here will say Im just lying about that too….) and MOST of my sales are by referrals now. The machine you saw at the trade show was probably an XL-15. It and its smaller cousin, the model 880 just got certified by CSA/UL as being safe for residential use. Its hard to argue with that. Get the real facts, Check with CSA/UL. Try one out. If you want you can e-mail me…Id be happy to talk to you. (Id be happy to sell you one, too…) gasp!! Cheers, Gerhardt
Response:
Hey, Gerhardt, I suggest you do a little reading before you post in this group again. Have a look at: http://home.pacbell.net/colin/ozone.htm As Colin points out, both the EPA and OSHA have classified ozone as a dangerous pollutant. After being threatened with a number of fines for making false health claims and endangering public health, Alpine quit advertising this dangerous product itself and started roping in suckers like yourself to make the claims for them. You should be ashamed of promoting a product that will DAMAGE the health of its users. I hope that you get exactly what you deserve for doing this. Kiwi Carlisle – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I’m sure you’ve heard of these before, but you really should look into an > Alpine air purifier..they do a really good job of minimizing dust mite > feces in air and carpets by breaking them down by oxidation. dust mites > feed mostly on dead skin particles which we all shed continuously…the > units will break down those particles to, and keep them becoming airborne > by ionization. This will address the problem at its source instead of > forcing you to take drugs to combat the symptoms. If youd like some > information, e-mail me. > Cheers, Gerhardt
Response:
>I’m sure you’ve heard of these before, but you really should look into an >Alpine air purifier..they do a really good job of minimizing dust mite >feces in air and carpets by breaking them down by oxidation. dust mites >feed mostly on dead skin particles which we all shed continuously…the >units will break down those particles to, and keep them becoming airborne >by ionization. This will address the problem at its source instead of >forcing you to take drugs to combat the symptoms. If youd like some >information, e-mail me.
Why are you selling an ozone generator to asthmatics? Ozone is a EPA regulated pollutant and an OSHA regulated hazardous chemical. In addition _any_ ozone exposure is considered to be harmful to asthmatics. BTW, the only real air filtration standard in existance is a Mil-Spec (Military Specification). The only units that meet this spec are HEPA units. >Cheers, Gerhardt
‘Reply to’ address changed to foil email spammers.
Response:
Can you tel me more about why the ozone machines are bad for asthmatics? I walked by one at a trade show and went back to sniff for awhile cuz it seemed to really feel good and fresh. My husbands reponse was that it smelled weird. I almost bought one and am pretty new to having asthma. Thanks
Response:
>Can you tel me more about why the ozone machines are bad for asthmatics? I >walked by one at a trade show and went back to sniff for awhile cuz it seemed >to really feel good and fresh. My husbands reponse was that it smelled weird. >I almost bought one and am pretty new to having asthma. Thanks
See my web site and follow the link titled ‘ozone generators’ http://home.pacbell.net/colin/index.html BTW, if you can smell ozone then you are being exposed to a dangerous amount. When I worked in the hazmat industry we used electronic monitoring devices because ozone is dangerous at levels that are not detectable by smell. ‘Reply to’ address changed to foil email spammers.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I’m sure you’ve heard of these before, but you really should look into an >Alpine air purifier..they do a really good job of minimizing dust mite >feces in air and carpets by breaking them down by oxidation. dust mites >feed mostly on dead skin particles which we all shed continuously…the >units will break down those particles to, and keep them becoming airborne >by ionization. This will address the problem at its source instead of >forcing you to take drugs to combat the symptoms. If youd like some >information, e-mail me. > Why are you selling an ozone generator to asthmatics? Ozone is a EPA > regulated pollutant and an OSHA regulated hazardous chemical. > In addition _any_ ozone exposure is considered to be harmful to > asthmatics. > BTW, the only real air filtration standard in existance is a Mil-Spec > (Military Specification). The only units that meet this spec are HEPA > units.
Here we go again…an Alpine unit is NOT a filter..hence no spec. Why Don’t you call CSA/UL and ask them just exactly it is that they’re doing???
Response:
I’m sure you’ve heard of these before, but you really should look into an Alpine air purifier..they do a really good job of minimizing dust mite feces in air and carpets by breaking them down by oxidation. dust mites feed mostly on dead skin particles which we all shed continuously…the units will break down those particles to, and keep them becoming airborne by ionization. This will address the problem at its source instead of forcing you to take drugs to combat the symptoms. If youd like some information, e-mail me. Cheers, Gerhardt
Response:
Related Posts