News Report Question
Question:
Hiya everyone – Im going to the dr on Thursday and I’m going to ask her this question, but I thought I would throw this out to you guys and see what you think. There was a news report tonight that told of a public school that used to be a factory, in which kids and teachers are getting sick. Supposedly the land the school is on and surrounding area is poisoned, a "Class 2" EPA crisis. The symptom reports are mostly headaches, rashes and asthma. My question is this – can a "normal" person with no asthma get asthma by breathing toxic fumes? I thought you had to be genetically predisposed, whether you had childhood or adult onset asthma. I didn’t think that it chronic asthma could be chemically induced. Your opinions are greatly appreciated. Life is uncertain – eat dessert first. Nancy 8=: )
Response:
My personal experience is this. I got exposed to toxic chemicals which caused damage to my lungs, (chronic obstruction disease). Over time asthma tendancy started. Toxic chemical are no good for anyone! UM MOM Susan
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hiya everyone – > Im going to the dr on Thursday and I’m going to ask her this question, but I > thought I would throw this out to you guys and see what you think. > There was a news report tonight that told of a public school that used to be a > factory, in which kids and teachers are getting sick. Supposedly the land the > school is on and surrounding area is poisoned, a "Class 2" EPA crisis. The > symptom reports are mostly headaches, rashes and asthma. > My question is this – can a "normal" person with no asthma get asthma by > breathing toxic fumes? I thought you had to be genetically predisposed, > whether you had childhood or adult onset asthma. I didn’t think that it > chronic asthma could be chemically induced. > Your opinions are greatly appreciated. > Life is uncertain – eat dessert first. > Nancy > 8=: )
Response:
>There was a news report tonight that told of a public school that used to be a >factory, in which kids and teachers are getting sick. Supposedly the land the >school is on and surrounding area is poisoned, a "Class 2" EPA crisis. The >symptom reports are mostly headaches, rashes and asthma.
The important question is: "Exactly what is it contaminated with?" There are several types of soil contamination that are not a hazard to people living above it (an example here is perchlorate, which can contaminate ground water but is no real problem for the people living above it otherwise). One of the things you have to remember about ‘news reports’ is that the producers know that ‘fear sells.’ They will say things like ‘a toxic danger to your children’s school’ in order to ensure that you do not change the channel during the upcoming commercials. In addition the people reporting on the subject will not have the necessary technical background to make an accurate appraisal regarding the existence of a hazard. >My question is this – can a "normal" person with no asthma get asthma by >breathing toxic fumes? I thought you had to be genetically predisposed, >whether you had childhood or adult onset asthma. I didn’t think that it >chronic asthma could be chemically induced.
There are _certain_ chemicals called sensitizers that can trigger allergic responses. These chemicals are now seldom used and then under strict safety procedures. Now irritating chemicals can aggravate a ’subclinical’ case of asthma into producing symptoms. Another thing to consider is the ‘nocebo’ effect, where you can convince an otherwise healthy person into thinking they are ill. BTW – I used to work as a consultant on mitigation/cleanup of hazardous material spills. — "We are fighting today for security, for progress, and for peace, not only for ourselves but for all men, not only for one generation but for all generations. We are fighting to cleanse the world of ancient evils, ancient ills." Franklin Delano Rosevelt State of the Union Address – 1942
Response:
>My personal experience is this. I got exposed to toxic chemicals which >caused damage to my lungs, (chronic obstruction disease). Over time asthma >tendancy started. Toxic chemical are no good for anyone! UM MOM Susan
Which chemicals? (Chemical induced COPD has become very rare after safety reforms pushed by OSHA and – more importantly – the milti-million dollar lawsuits of the Seventies and early Eighties.) — "We are fighting today for security, for progress, and for peace, not only for ourselves but for all men, not only for one generation but for all generations. We are fighting to cleanse the world of ancient evils, ancient ills." Franklin Delano Rosevelt State of the Union Address – 1942
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hiya everyone – > Im going to the dr on Thursday and I’m going to ask her this question, but I > thought I would throw this out to you guys and see what you think. > There was a news report tonight that told of a public school that used to be a > factory, in which kids and teachers are getting sick. Supposedly the land the > school is on and surrounding area is poisoned, a "Class 2" EPA crisis. The > symptom reports are mostly headaches, rashes and asthma. > My question is this – can a "normal" person with no asthma get asthma by > breathing toxic fumes? I thought you had to be genetically predisposed, > whether you had childhood or adult onset asthma. I didn’t think that it > chronic asthma could be chemically induced.
First, did the news report specifically say that folks who *never* had asthma before have now developed asthma? It’s more likely that these kids and teachers already had the underlying inflammation of asthma (maybe without knowing it), and the chemical exposure triggered acute attacks. Even someone whose asthma is mild and well-controlled, might have problems if he traveled to Mexico City on a day when the smog is at its worst. Second, some chemicals, such as sulfur dioxide gas in sufficient quantities, can cause bronchospasm even in normal non-asthmatic people. Lots of people cough during bad Los Angeles smog or bad Mexico City smog. But they don’t have true asthma. — Steven D. Litvintchouk
Response:
Thanks everyone for your opinions. They didn’t say what the site was contaminated with. It is a public school in Ozone Park, Queens. They interviewed parents and teachers who said that the kids were fine and then when they came out of school they had a list of symptoms ranging from headaches, and rashes to "chronic, constant" asthma. They showed a kid who had to take meds every day who didn’t before. Now, it could be coincidence that her asthma developed while in grammar school, but who knows. Asthma was the biggest complaint. I knew that chemicals could cause respiratory problems, but the "chronic asthma" threw me. Thanks for all the input – I will let you know what the doc says tomorrow. Life is uncertain – eat dessert first. Nancy 8=: )
Response:
>Thanks everyone for your opinions. >They didn’t say what the site was contaminated with. It is a public school in >Ozone Park, Queens. They interviewed parents and teachers who said that the >kids were fine and then when they came out of school they had a list of >symptoms ranging from headaches, and rashes to "chronic, constant" asthma. >They showed a kid who had to take meds every day who didn’t before.
The most common cause of this sort of thing lies with the HVAC system. A very common economy measure is to reduce the number of ‘air exchanges’ for the occupied rooms. This saves on heating/cooling costs but means that people are breathing more stale air. Even if you have some sort of gas infiltration from the ground below the building (indicative of a poorly designed/functioning remediation system) increasing the number of air exchanges will help resolve the acute problem. Note: A common and effective method of cleaning soils contaminated with VOCs (generally aromatic solvents, fuels etc.) is to drill wells under the site and attach a suction device to the wells, this creates a partial vacuum which not only vaporizes the contaminants and sucks them into your collection tank or burner unit – but the vapors are drawn away from the soil surface so you can place buildings on the contaminated land without fear of exposing the occupants. When I worked as a hazmat consultant our offices were located on a site where this was going on. (The owners of the building refused to believe us when we told them that the soil contaminants were particullarly lethal to palm trees. Six months later all of the – now deceased – palm trees were replaced with plants that were immune to the contaminants.) A rather cool technology IMO. — "We are fighting today for security, for progress, and for peace, not only for ourselves but for all men, not only for one generation but for all generations. We are fighting to cleanse the world of ancient evils, ancient ills." Franklin Delano Rosevelt State of the Union Address – 1942
Response:
>Which chemicals? (Chemical induced COPD has become very rare after >safety reforms pushed by OSHA and – more importantly – the >milti-million dollar lawsuits of the Seventies and early Eighties.)
Not if you mix chemicals. I just recently had a friend die from using mixed chemicals.Some people still don’t read labels.
Response:
> >Which chemicals? (Chemical induced COPD has become very rare after >safety reforms pushed by OSHA and – more importantly – the >milti-million dollar lawsuits of the Seventies and early Eighties.) > Not if you mix chemicals. I just recently > had a friend die from using mixed chemicals.Some people still don’t read > labels.
Out of more than curiosity, what were those chemicals? Larry
Response:
Mixing chemicals together that were multiple pesticides with glues and other chemicals that came through my ac handler which knocked me out. UM MOM Susan
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Which chemicals? (Chemical induced COPD has become very rare after >safety reforms pushed by OSHA and – more importantly – the >milti-million dollar lawsuits of the Seventies and early Eighties.) > Not if you mix chemicals. I just recently > had a friend die from using mixed chemicals.Some people still don’t read > labels.
Response:
I can"t remember all the mixture of chemicals but this will give you a good idea of how bad. Hydrofluocarbons (R-22), chlorodifluoromethane breaking down to hydrogen flouide,hydrogen chloride.carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide , chlorine and multiple pesticides. UM MOM Susan
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >Which chemicals? (Chemical induced COPD has become very rare after > >safety reforms pushed by OSHA and – more importantly – the > >milti-million dollar lawsuits of the Seventies and early Eighties.) > Not if you mix chemicals. I just recently > had a friend die from using mixed chemicals.Some people still don’t read > labels. > Out of more than curiosity, what were those chemicals? > Larry
Response:
> > Not if you mix chemicals. I just recently > had a friend die from using mixed chemicals.Some people still don’t read > labels. > Out of more than curiosity, what were those chemicals?
Some bacteria are killed by bleach. Others are killed by amonia. You might be tempted to mix the two and get ‘em both at once. ****DON’T****!! The mixture gives off a poisonous gas. Ted
Response:
Pardon my ignorance, but isn’t sulphur dioxide also corrosive and damaging? If it is, then what is to say that the damage isn’t permanent? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hiya everyone – > Im going to the dr on Thursday and I’m going to ask her this > question, but I thought I would throw this out to you guys and see > what you think. > There was a news report tonight that told of a public school that > used to be a factory, in which kids and teachers are getting sick. > Supposedly the land the school is on and surrounding area is > poisoned, a "Class 2" EPA crisis. The symptom reports are mostly > headaches, rashes and asthma. > My question is this – can a "normal" person with no asthma get > asthma by breathing toxic fumes? I thought you had to be > genetically predisposed, whether you had childhood or adult onset > asthma. I didn’t think that it chronic asthma could be chemically > induced. > First, did the news report specifically say that folks who *never* had > asthma before have now developed asthma? It’s more likely that these > kids and teachers already had the underlying inflammation of asthma > (maybe without knowing it), and the chemical exposure triggered acute > attacks. Even someone whose asthma is mild and well-controlled, might > have problems if he traveled to Mexico City on a day when the smog is > at its worst. > Second, some chemicals, such as sulfur dioxide gas in sufficient > quantities, can cause bronchospasm even in normal non-asthmatic > people. Lots of people cough during bad Los Angeles smog or bad > Mexico City smog. But they don’t have true asthma.
– Cry havoc! and let loose the dogs of war, That this foul deed shall smell above the earth. With carrion men, groaning for burial. – William Shakespeare (1564-1616), British dramatist, poet. Antony, in Julius Caesar, act 3, sc. 1.
Response:
Exactly….I had done that once by accident while pouring cleaing supplies into a bucket in a poorly lit cleaning room ( someone had relocated hte two next to each other…..somehting I was cautious NOT to do so this would not happen ) and got a very nice cloud of gas coming off the bucket ( which immediately got removed to outdoors for disposal ). Some people don’t know the risk and not all are labeled with a clear warning or in big enough print to be seen without effort. >> Not if you mix chemicals. I just recently >> had a friend die from using mixed chemicals.Some people still don’t >> read labels. > Out of more than curiosity, what were those chemicals? > Some bacteria are killed by bleach. Others are killed by amonia. You > might be tempted to mix the two and get ‘em both at once. > ****DON’T****!! The mixture gives off a poisonous gas. > Ted
– Cry havoc! and let loose the dogs of war, That this foul deed shall smell above the earth. With carrion men, groaning for burial. – William Shakespeare (1564-1616), British dramatist, poet. Antony, in Julius Caesar, act 3, sc. 1.
Response:
> Exactly….I had done that once by accident while pouring cleaing > supplies into a bucket in a poorly lit cleaning room ( someone had relocated > hte two next to each other…..somehting I was cautious NOT to do so this > would not happen ) and got a very nice cloud of gas coming off the bucket > ( which immediately got removed to outdoors for disposal ). > Some people don’t know the risk and not all are labeled with a clear > warning or in big enough print to be seen without effort.
I thought the resulting gas is cyanide. Let’s see Bleach= NaClO_4 (sodium hypochlorite, I think) Amonia=NH_3 (wow! does that bring back chemistry memories or not if I got it wrong 
) We need a potassium for cyanide, I think. Maybe in the Amonia. Is it KNH_3 ? Anyone know? This is fun. — — Lou Pecora – My views are my own.
Response:
>I thought the resulting gas is cyanide. Let’s see >Bleach= NaClO_4 (sodium hypochlorite, I think) >Amonia=NH_3 (wow! does that bring back chemistry memories or not if I >got it wrong ) >We need a potassium for cyanide, I think. Maybe in the Amonia. Is it >KNH_3 ? Anyone know? This is fun.
Mixing Household Cleaners Can Damage Lungs Household chemists beware — the fumes produced by mixing ammonia and bleach products can cause serious lung problems. When bleach and ammonia are combined, the doctors explain, they create a gas called chloramine. When inhaled, this gas releases ammonia, hydrochloric acid, and oxygen free radicals in the lungs. Small amounts of chloramine may cause mild irritation, but it can corrode the tissues of the lung and damage the cells. The result: inflammation of the lung tissues and build-up of fluids that can obstruct the airways. The New England Journal of Medicine 1999;341:848-849. Bob
Response:
>> Exactly….I had done that once by accident while pouring cleaing > supplies into a bucket in a poorly lit cleaning room ( someone had relocated > hte two next to each other…..somehting I was cautious NOT to do so this > would not happen ) and got a very nice cloud of gas coming off the bucket > ( which immediately got removed to outdoors for disposal ). > Some people don’t know the risk and not all are labeled with a clear > warning or in big enough print to be seen without effort. >I thought the resulting gas is cyanide. Let’s see
Not cyanide. Chlorine gas. Which turns into hydrochloric acid when it contacts water. And since there is a lot of water in your lungs . . . — "We are fighting today for security, for progress, and for peace, not only for ourselves but for all men, not only for one generation but for all generations. We are fighting to cleanse the world of ancient evils, ancient ills." Franklin Delano Rosevelt State of the Union Address – 1942
Response:
> Not cyanide. Chlorine gas. Which turns into hydrochloric acid when > it contacts water. > And since there is a lot of water in your lungs . . .
Your lungs get digested. Not good. — — Lou Pecora – My views are my own.
Response:
If I remember correctly, it would release chlorine gas……I don’t remember too good. I just know I wasn’t gonna stick my head in the bucket and smell it to find out, and it sure can’t be good for you. Feel free to mix them yourself if you like, if you really feel a need to know….just make sure it’s in a very small amount ( a teaspoon or less ) in a clear glass large enough to contain the cloud, ’cause it makes a cloud almost immediately and a small amount is more easily dispersed or disposed of, and preferably do it outdoors so you don’t hurt yourself. There are plenty of things around the home that can hurt you badly if put together a certain way. That is where all the bathtub terrorists get away it. The things that can do damage for little of nothing, and are legal to purchase each and every day. — Cry havoc! and let loose the dogs of war, That this foul deed shall smell above the earth. With carrion men, groaning for burial. – William Shakespeare (1564-1616), British dramatist, poet. Antony, in Julius Caesar, act 3, sc. 1. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Exactly….I had done that once by accident while pouring cleaing > supplies into a bucket in a poorly lit cleaning room ( someone had relocated > hte two next to each other…..somehting I was cautious NOT to do so this > would not happen ) and got a very nice cloud of gas coming off the bucket > ( which immediately got removed to outdoors for disposal ). > Some people don’t know the risk and not all are labeled with a clear > warning or in big enough print to be seen without effort. > I thought the resulting gas is cyanide. Let’s see > Bleach= NaClO_4 (sodium hypochlorite, I think) > Amonia=NH_3 (wow! does that bring back chemistry memories or not if I > got it wrong ) > We need a potassium for cyanide, I think. Maybe in the Amonia. Is it > KNH_3 ? Anyone know? This is fun. > — > — Lou Pecora > – My views are my own.
Response:
>Not cyanide. Chlorine gas. Which turns into hydrochloric acid when >it contacts water.
Yes and no. While chlorine does breakdown to hydrochloric acid when it contacts water, the source of the hydrochoric acid in this case of mixing bleach and ammonia comes from chloramine gas, not CL2. Mama said there’ll be days like this, there’ll be days like this my Mama said, Mama said, Mama said… -The Shirelles
Response:
>>Not cyanide. Chlorine gas. Which turns into hydrochloric acid when >it contacts water. >Yes and no. While chlorine does breakdown to hydrochloric acid when >it contacts water, the source of the hydrochoric acid in this case of >mixing bleach and ammonia comes from chloramine gas, not CL2.
Ok. — "We are fighting today for security, for progress, and for peace, not only for ourselves but for all men, not only for one generation but for all generations. We are fighting to cleanse the world of ancient evils, ancient ills." Franklin Delano Rosevelt State of the Union Address – 1942
Response:
>> Out of more than curiosity, what were those chemicals? > Larry
He was dead by the time I thought of asking him as I do not mix chemicals. I do know that he was cleaning out his bathroom for mildew.
Response:
Nancy: I became a chronic asthmatic due to exposure to dust, chemicals, molds etc. ASTHMA may be an environmental problem and can be controlled. Will you please give me more detail on the location of the school as I am now in a position to offer a solution to their environmental problem. — Sincerely, Donna Salamon Fresh and Delightful Polution Solutions (610) 444-3345 — – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hiya everyone – > Im going to the dr on Thursday and I’m going to ask her this question, but I > thought I would throw this out to you guys and see what you think. > There was a news report tonight that told of a public school that used to be a > factory, in which kids and teachers are getting sick. Supposedly the land the > school is on and surrounding area is poisoned, a "Class 2" EPA crisis. The > symptom reports are mostly headaches, rashes and asthma. > My question is this – can a "normal" person with no asthma get asthma by > breathing toxic fumes? I thought you had to be genetically predisposed, > whether you had childhood or adult onset asthma. I didn’t think that it > chronic asthma could be chemically induced. > Your opinions are greatly appreciated. > Life is uncertain – eat dessert first. > Nancy > 8=: )
Response:
>Sincerely, >Donna Salamon >Fresh and Delightful Polution Solutions
Ever notice that the only people who claim that ozone generators are ’safe’ are the people selling them? — "We are fighting today for security, for progress, and for peace, not only for ourselves but for all men, not only for one generation but for all generations. We are fighting to cleanse the world of ancient evils, ancient ills." Franklin Delano Rosevelt State of the Union Address – 1942
Response:
> Nancy: > I became a chronic asthmatic due to exposure to dust, chemicals, molds etc. > ASTHMA may be an environmental problem and can be controlled. Will you > please give me more detail on the location of the school as I am now in a > position to offer a solution to their environmental problem. > Sincerely, > Donna Salamon
The only position you should be in, is retreat–from this newsgroup. We don’t like sales hacks marketing ozone generators here.
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