Newbie Here

Question:

I had my first bout with depression in Feb., and it lasted about three weeks.  I felt like I was in a deep it, and put myself on St. John’s Wort.  It kicked in in about two and a half weeks.  Stupidly, I took myself off of it a month later. In May it came back for three days, so back on SJW.  When I could talk about it without crying, I went to see my doctor.  I am not one to take drugs, and she knows this, and said if SJW works, keep on it.  She also told me she knew I had been depressed for two years, but if she would come out and tell me that and send me home with meds., she knew it would ruin the patient relationship.  Not so sure I agree with this.  Anyway, I really like this doc. But, I forgot to ask her about SJW.  Does anyone know how long it is safe to be on it, how long I should stay on it, and do I need to be weaned off of it when I finally do get off of it. Sorry this is so long, and I appreciate everyone being here.  What dreadful disease. Thanks. Kate

Response:

> But, I forgot to ask her about SJW.  Does anyone know how long it is > safe to be on it, how long I should stay on it, and do I need to be > weaned off of it when I finally do get off of it.

Go back and ask your doctor Kate Nobody here is qualified to give such information, though some might falsely suggest they are. Personal experiences with SJW and general information are one thing , specific advice for an unknown person quite another. Sorry you are feeling so rotten – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Thanks. > Kate

Response:

Thanks for your help. Kate – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> But, I forgot to ask her about SJW.  Does anyone know how long it is > safe to be on it, how long I should stay on it, and do I need to be > weaned off of it when I finally do get off of it. > Go back and ask your doctor Kate > Nobody here is qualified to give such information, though some might falsely > suggest they are. > Personal experiences with SJW and general information are one thing , > specific advice for an unknown person quite another. > Sorry you are feeling so rotten > Thanks. > Kate

Response:

I do believe that the deep nerve blocks and epidural steroid injections are the same, as I am in the middle of my series (2nd on this Thursday). I also have the same symptoms as you suffer, and also permanent nerve damage to the sciatic nerve, with atrophy to the left calf.  The injection was difficult to get to for me because of the scar tissue at the nerve site. It turns out that my nerve root is encased in scar tissue, and this seems to be the cause for my continued and exacerbating pain. Perhaps this is your problem, as well? You mention that the MRI shows this, to an extent. My fluoroscope pictures show this very clearly. I am not feeling any difference 2.5 weeks out from the first injection, and am wavering on whether or not to continue, due to the extreme pain the procedures inflicts on me. I felt a whole lot worse, in fact, for the entire week following the injection, and am now basically back to where I started. I hope that I have been helpful to you, and I also hope to gain more info from those who post, as well. Good luck, and have a low-pain-day! Trailingvine – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > I have a long history of back problems.  Cleared > > things up with an anterior and posterior fusion at > > l.4-l.5 4 years ago, but have had growing sciatic > > pain (mainly hamstring and glute areas with jolts > > all the way down) over the last several months. > > Just had a nerve root block shot of steroids and > > some kind of analgesic last week and it actually > > made things worse.  Has anyone in this goup had > > similar injections, tried the series of 3? > > thanks, > > Before you buy. > I’ve had a series of two epidural injections & did not continue on the > the third, because it was ineffective. Have you had any recent MRI > three years ago, but it did not clear up my problems. I found out >about > a year ago my L5-S1 is now bulging, or herniated. It could be possible > one of your other discs has "given out" now due to more strain on them > because of the loss of flexibility at L4-5. I think I also had a nerve > root block by a different MD with no success. (It may have been >another > epidural, but if it was, it was a really deep injection and done under > x-ray or some sort of imaging equipment.) Might be time for an MRI, or > disco gram, perish the thought… > Good luck, > ras~ >Ras- >Thanks for the informative post. I have had an MRI and CAT Scan done >fairly recently.  No herniation, but lots of arthritic growths around >L5-S1 and a good deal of fluid in my right SI joint.  I believe that the >shot I had last week was not a epidural, but rather like the "deep" >injection you had as it was done under a flouroscope (like an x-ray) and >put the medication around the sciatic nerve sheath. It was refered to as >a "nerve root block shot."  The neurosurgeon who gave me the injection >said that only about 60% respond well.  A friend who is an >anaesthesiologist and himself gives these shots said that my odds were >lower as the surgery I had in the area makes needle placement more >difficult.  I am wondering if I should get another shot. Seems like you >haven’t had good luck with them.  But I sure would like to get rid of >this pain. The pain I am suffering from is rather odd in that my range >of motion doesn’t seem to be effected and I remain strong.  It just >hurts like hell from glute to botton of hamstring and I get very nasty >jolts all the way down the leg frequently, especially when I roll over >in bed.  I hope to get enough feedback from this group to give me some >guidance, but am also concerned that "success" stories may not be >participating, and only those still >Before you buy.

" Because you have the most marvelous youth, and youth is the one thing worth having."                     Oscar Wilde

Response:

Hi Dawn, Welcome to the group. Hope you can stick around for awhile. Shell

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi, >   I have RA, DDD and DFD.  In the past I have had epidurals to control > the back pain.  My last injection was a year ago and I had been doing > fine.  However, that is not the case now, I have severe back pain along > with sciatica in my left leg.  I have a hard time sitting and then > standing.  I take Vicodin for pain and that is now longer holding the > pain.  I saw a pain specialist today and he is doing another epidural > and said we would talk about other pain meds at that time.  He mentioned > morphine.  That sounds so scary to me, if I build a tolerence to it what > is next? > Dawn0 > — > The time you enjoyed wasting really wasn’t wasted.

Response:

> > Hi, >   I have RA, DDD and DFD.  In the past I have had epidurals to control > the back pain.  My last injection was a year ago and I had been doing > fine.  However, that is not the case now, I have severe back pain along > with sciatica in my left leg.  I have a hard time sitting and then > standing.  I take Vicodin for pain and that is now longer holding the > pain.  I saw a pain specialist today and he is doing another epidural > and said we would talk about other pain meds at that time.  He mentioned > morphine.  That sounds so scary to me, if I build a tolerence to it what > is next? > Dawn0

Dawn, You ask "what is next" if you build a tolerance to morphine. The answer is: More morphine. There is no analgesic "ceiling" when using morphine. In other words, when you build a tolerance to a specific dose of morphine, you just need to take more morphine. When you again build a tolerance to the new amount, your doctor simply adjusts (titrates) your dose even higher. Some people find that eventually they reach a dosage level that adequately controls the pain and they can stop there for longer and longer periods of time. Good luck! – Sterno — M’muh!

Response:

Thanks for the answers and welcomes.  I know I will be signing a contract with the pain specialist in two weeks and he alone with handle the meds and  dosage etc.   I wish the time would go by faster, I am looking forward to the relief. I saw my pcp today and he rxd Robaxin for the spasms that are happening as a result odthe pain.  I have never taken this before, I am going to get ready for bed, take a pill and hopefully sleep through the night. Again thanks, I am glad to have this group for support. Dawn0 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > Hi, > >   I have RA, DDD and DFD.  In the past I have had epidurals to control > > the back pain.  My last injection was a year ago and I had been doing > > fine.  However, that is not the case now, I have severe back pain along > > with sciatica in my left leg.  I have a hard time sitting and then > > standing.  I take Vicodin for pain and that is now longer holding the > > pain.  I saw a pain specialist today and he is doing another epidural > > and said we would talk about other pain meds at that time.  He mentioned > > morphine.  That sounds so scary to me, if I build a tolerence to it what > > is next? > > Dawn0 > Dawn, > You ask "what is next" if you build a tolerance to morphine. The answer > is: More morphine. There is no analgesic "ceiling" when using morphine. In > other words, when you build a tolerance to a specific dose of morphine, > you just need to take more morphine. When you again build a tolerance to > the new amount, your doctor simply adjusts (titrates) your dose even > higher. Some people find that eventually they reach a dosage level that > adequately controls the pain and they can stop there for longer and longer > periods of time. > Good luck! > – Sterno > — > M’muh!

– The time you enjoyed wasting really wasn’t wasted.

Response:

Morphine in high doses can have metabolites that actually keep it from working.  But we are talking good size doses for people in severe, chronic pain…MS Contin 300 mg every 12 hours…something like that.  The very EASY fix for that is to switch to OxyContin.  Oxycodone will not give you that metabolite buildup. As to the BS your doc is feeding you (I am sorry…I had a bad day with a new pain patient who was mistreated/maltreated by her other docs and I have little tolerance now) about pain getting so bad…that is true…if you WAIT UNTIL IT IS TOO MUCH PAIN…then you "get behind the eight ball" and it takes a lot more to stop the pain.  For chronic pain, there should be NO HEROES.  If your pain starts to get to a 4 or 5, then take some breakthrough…you tweak it yourself.  If you become too sedated from the one tablet of breakthrough, you have taken too much and need to either break the pill in half (only do this with breakthrough meds) or wait for the pain to increase a bit more before taking it. So she is feeding you a line…ask her if what I stated above is true (clean it up before hand). When docs start treating opiates like any other med that needs to have a clear justification for its use but not something to be terrified of, then the world of chronic pain will have gotten just a bit brighter. Also, honesty on the doc’s part always helps.  I ALWAYS tell my patients the truth as I know it.  They seem to prefer it.  I also speak to them the same way I write to you here.  I pull no punches (though I am polite…especially to the older ladies) and I try to always use the vernacular speech.  For example, I always ask, "Any problems pooping or peeing?"  Some laugh the first time I ask it that way…but they know EXACTLY what I mean.  I had a teenager laugh when I said that…I then asked her if I was using too technical of terms for her…she laughed even harder. — Bill Work

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Dr Work, > I found this statement interesting. Could you please expound for me please? > My doctor said, she was reluctant to > give me break through medication, because some pain can get so bad, that > nothing will treat it, so no more morpine would do the trick. > Why is that – or do I have to get an order from my neurologist to give me > breakthrough meds, even though he allready stated it in his original > referring letter. > Can one have too much morphine even when it is not working? Can it stop > working? > *sigh* > I thought I could trust my doc. I sometimes feel I am fighting a losing > battle, though I WANT to believe. > Thanks Doc, > Shauna > Dr Work wrote; > second misconception is that you will develop "a tolerance to any of the > meds to the point where they no longer work."  That will never happen as > evidenced by the latter case I mentioned above.  How much narcotics is > enough?  Enough but not too much…that is the correct answer.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Michael, > All pain is pain…I don’t think mine is any worse than anyone else’s > here, as we all suffer the same indignities and trials because of it. > I am very glad to hear that you’ve come through to the other side of > your injection! I had my 2nd one on Thursday….and the doc gave me > scripts for real pain meds! I now take methadone and OxyIR for > breakthrough…and now compazine for the nausea. My doc also brought > up trying a stimulator implant…scares me, though, as i have a > history of infection. I will think about it, though…anything that > may help will always be an option to me. > Anyway, good luck, and keep me informed on your progress! > Feel free to e-mail me if you like. > I hope you have another good day, and all that follow, too! > Trailingvine >Thanks for your 2 posts.  It does sound that we have had similar >reactions to the injections:  things got worse for a week and then began >to get back to where they were before the shot.  It does, however, sound >like you have generally worse pain overall.  You poor thing. Amazingly, >today (11 days post first injection) I had a good day.  Way less pain. >I doubled up on my NSAID yesterday (which I do from time to time), but I >doubt that explains all of the relief I have had.  I’ve got my fingers >crossed. >Michael >> I do believe that the deep nerve blocks and epidural steroid >> injections are the same, as I am in the middle of my series (2nd on >> this Thursday). I also have the same symptoms as you suffer, and also >> permanent nerve damage to the sciatic nerve, with atrophy to the left >> calf.  The injection was difficult to get to for me because of the >> scar tissue at the nerve site. It turns out that my nerve root is >> encased in scar tissue, and this seems to be the cause for my >> continued and exacerbating pain. Perhaps this is your problem, as >> well? You mention that the MRI shows this, to an extent. My >> fluoroscope pictures show this very clearly. >> I am not feeling any difference 2.5 weeks out from the first >> injection, and am wavering on whether or not to continue, due to the >> extreme pain the procedures inflicts on me. I felt a whole lot worse, >> in fact, for the entire week following the injection, and am now >> basically back to where I started. >> I hope that I have been helpful to you, and I also hope to gain more >> info from those who post, as well. >> Good luck, and have a low-pain-day! >> Trailingvine >> >> > I have a long history of back problems.  Cleared >> >> > things up with an anterior and posterior fusion at >> >> > l.4-l.5 4 years ago, but have had growing sciatic >> >> > pain (mainly hamstring and glute areas with jolts >> >> > all the way down) over the last several months. >> >> > Just had a nerve root block shot of steroids and >> >> > some kind of analgesic last week and it actually >> >> > made things worse.  Has anyone in this goup had >> >> > similar injections, tried the series of 3? >> >> > thanks, >> >> > Before you buy. >> >> I’ve had a series of two epidural injections & did not continue on >the >> >> the third, because it was ineffective. Have you had any recent MRI >level >> >> three years ago, but it did not clear up my problems. I found out >> >about >> >> a year ago my L5-S1 is now bulging, or herniated. It could be >possible >> >> one of your other discs has "given out" now due to more strain on >them >> >> because of the loss of flexibility at L4-5. I think I also had a >nerve >> >> root block by a different MD with no success. (It may have been >> >another >> >> epidural, but if it was, it was a really deep injection and done >under >> >> x-ray or some sort of imaging equipment.) Might be time for an MRI, >or >> >> disco gram, perish the thought… >> >> Good luck, >> >> ras~ >> >Ras- >> >Thanks for the informative post. I have had an MRI and CAT Scan done >> >fairly recently.  No herniation, but lots of arthritic growths around >> >L5-S1 and a good deal of fluid in my right SI joint.  I believe that >the >> >shot I had last week was not a epidural, but rather like the "deep" >> >injection you had as it was done under a flouroscope (like an x-ray) >and >> >put the medication around the sciatic nerve sheath. It was refered to >as >> >a "nerve root block shot."  The neurosurgeon who gave me the >injection >> >said that only about 60% respond well.  A friend who is an >> >anaesthesiologist and himself gives these shots said that my odds >were >> >lower as the surgery I had in the area makes needle placement more >> >difficult.  I am wondering if I should get another shot. Seems like >you >> >haven’t had good luck with them.  But I sure would like to get rid of >> >this pain. The pain I am suffering from is rather odd in that my >range >> >of motion doesn’t seem to be effected and I remain strong.  It just >> >hurts like hell from glute to botton of hamstring and I get very >nasty >> >jolts all the way down the leg frequently, especially when I roll >over >> >in bed.  I hope to get enough feedback from this group to give me >some >> >guidance, but am also concerned that "success" stories may not be >> >participating, and only those still

Dear List: What is an MRI? I am fairly new to posting here.  My mother began a series of epidural nerve block shots 2 weeks ago. She had her first one between the shoulder blades.  So far the pain has not come back.  She also has a severe pain in the right hip which the Drs believe is related to the back pain but at the time of initial evaluation it was felt that shots were warranted in the back area rather than the hip as the back pain was worse.  Now the hip pain is most severe.  We spoke to a nurse who said on Monday the Drs will evaluate my mother to see if a shot is warranted in the hip or to continue with the shots in the back area.  The nurse said the Drs prefer to work one area at a time. Any thoughts or comments would be most apreciated.  We are new to these types of injections. john and rose >> >Before you buy. >> " Because you have the most marvelous youth, and youth is the one >thing worth having." >Before you buy. > " Because you have the most marvelous youth, and youth is the one

thing worth having." >                     Oscar Wilde

Before you buy.

Response:

Thanks for your 2 posts.  It does sound that we have had similar reactions to the injections:  things got worse for a week and then began to get back to where they were before the shot.  It does, however, sound like you have generally worse pain overall.  You poor thing.  Amazingly, today (11 days post first injection) I had a good day.  Way less pain. I doubled up on my NSAID yesterday (which I do from time to time), but I doubt that explains all of the relief I have had.  I’ve got my fingers crossed. Michael – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I do believe that the deep nerve blocks and epidural steroid > injections are the same, as I am in the middle of my series (2nd on > this Thursday). I also have the same symptoms as you suffer, and also > permanent nerve damage to the sciatic nerve, with atrophy to the left > calf.  The injection was difficult to get to for me because of the > scar tissue at the nerve site. It turns out that my nerve root is > encased in scar tissue, and this seems to be the cause for my > continued and exacerbating pain. Perhaps this is your problem, as > well? You mention that the MRI shows this, to an extent. My > fluoroscope pictures show this very clearly. > I am not feeling any difference 2.5 weeks out from the first > injection, and am wavering on whether or not to continue, due to the > extreme pain the procedures inflicts on me. I felt a whole lot worse, > in fact, for the entire week following the injection, and am now > basically back to where I started. > I hope that I have been helpful to you, and I also hope to gain more > info from those who post, as well. > Good luck, and have a low-pain-day! > Trailingvine >> > I have a long history of back problems.  Cleared >> > things up with an anterior and posterior fusion at >> > l.4-l.5 4 years ago, but have had growing sciatic >> > pain (mainly hamstring and glute areas with jolts >> > all the way down) over the last several months. >> > Just had a nerve root block shot of steroids and >> > some kind of analgesic last week and it actually >> > made things worse.  Has anyone in this goup had >> > similar injections, tried the series of 3? >> > thanks, >> > Before you buy. >> I’ve had a series of two epidural injections & did not continue on the >> the third, because it was ineffective. Have you had any recent MRI level >> three years ago, but it did not clear up my problems. I found out >about >> a year ago my L5-S1 is now bulging, or herniated. It could be possible >> one of your other discs has "given out" now due to more strain on them >> because of the loss of flexibility at L4-5. I think I also had a nerve >> root block by a different MD with no success. (It may have been >another >> epidural, but if it was, it was a really deep injection and done under >> x-ray or some sort of imaging equipment.) Might be time for an MRI, or >> disco gram, perish the thought… >> Good luck, >> ras~ >Ras- >Thanks for the informative post. I have had an MRI and CAT Scan done >fairly recently.  No herniation, but lots of arthritic growths around >L5-S1 and a good deal of fluid in my right SI joint.  I believe that the >shot I had last week was not a epidural, but rather like the "deep" >injection you had as it was done under a flouroscope (like an x-ray) and >put the medication around the sciatic nerve sheath. It was refered to as >a "nerve root block shot."  The neurosurgeon who gave me the injection >said that only about 60% respond well.  A friend who is an >anaesthesiologist and himself gives these shots said that my odds were >lower as the surgery I had in the area makes needle placement more >difficult.  I am wondering if I should get another shot. Seems like you >haven’t had good luck with them.  But I sure would like to get rid of >this pain. The pain I am suffering from is rather odd in that my range >of motion doesn’t seem to be effected and I remain strong.  It just >hurts like hell from glute to botton of hamstring and I get very nasty >jolts all the way down the leg frequently, especially when I roll over >in bed.  I hope to get enough feedback from this group to give me some >guidance, but am also concerned that "success" stories may not be >participating, and only those still >Before you buy. > " Because you have the most marvelous youth, and youth is the one

thing worth having." Before you buy.

Response:

Michael, All pain is pain…I don’t think mine is any worse than anyone else’s here, as we all suffer the same indignities and trials because of it. I am very glad to hear that you’ve come through to the other side of your injection! I had my 2nd one on Thursday….and the doc gave me scripts for real pain meds! I now take methadone and OxyIR for breakthrough…and now compazine for the nausea. My doc also brought up trying a stimulator implant…scares me, though, as i have a history of infection. I will think about it, though…anything that may help will always be an option to me. Anyway, good luck, and keep me informed on your progress! Feel free to e-mail me if you like. I hope you have another good day, and all that follow, too! Trailingvine – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Thanks for your 2 posts.  It does sound that we have had similar >reactions to the injections:  things got worse for a week and then began >to get back to where they were before the shot.  It does, however, sound >like you have generally worse pain overall.  You poor thing.  Amazingly, >today (11 days post first injection) I had a good day.  Way less pain. >I doubled up on my NSAID yesterday (which I do from time to time), but I >doubt that explains all of the relief I have had.  I’ve got my fingers >crossed. >Michael > I do believe that the deep nerve blocks and epidural steroid > injections are the same, as I am in the middle of my series (2nd on > this Thursday). I also have the same symptoms as you suffer, and also > permanent nerve damage to the sciatic nerve, with atrophy to the left > calf.  The injection was difficult to get to for me because of the > scar tissue at the nerve site. It turns out that my nerve root is > encased in scar tissue, and this seems to be the cause for my > continued and exacerbating pain. Perhaps this is your problem, as > well? You mention that the MRI shows this, to an extent. My > fluoroscope pictures show this very clearly. > I am not feeling any difference 2.5 weeks out from the first > injection, and am wavering on whether or not to continue, due to the > extreme pain the procedures inflicts on me. I felt a whole lot worse, > in fact, for the entire week following the injection, and am now > basically back to where I started. > I hope that I have been helpful to you, and I also hope to gain more > info from those who post, as well. > Good luck, and have a low-pain-day! > Trailingvine > >> > I have a long history of back problems.  Cleared > >> > things up with an anterior and posterior fusion at > >> > l.4-l.5 4 years ago, but have had growing sciatic > >> > pain (mainly hamstring and glute areas with jolts > >> > all the way down) over the last several months. > >> > Just had a nerve root block shot of steroids and > >> > some kind of analgesic last week and it actually > >> > made things worse.  Has anyone in this goup had > >> > similar injections, tried the series of 3? > >> > thanks, > >> > Before you buy. > >> I’ve had a series of two epidural injections & did not continue on >the > >> the third, because it was ineffective. Have you had any recent MRI >level > >> three years ago, but it did not clear up my problems. I found out > >about > >> a year ago my L5-S1 is now bulging, or herniated. It could be >possible > >> one of your other discs has "given out" now due to more strain on >them > >> because of the loss of flexibility at L4-5. I think I also had a >nerve > >> root block by a different MD with no success. (It may have been > >another > >> epidural, but if it was, it was a really deep injection and done >under > >> x-ray or some sort of imaging equipment.) Might be time for an MRI, >or > >> disco gram, perish the thought… > >> Good luck, > >> ras~ > >Ras- > >Thanks for the informative post. I have had an MRI and CAT Scan done > >fairly recently.  No herniation, but lots of arthritic growths around > >L5-S1 and a good deal of fluid in my right SI joint.  I believe that >the > >shot I had last week was not a epidural, but rather like the "deep" > >injection you had as it was done under a flouroscope (like an x-ray) >and > >put the medication around the sciatic nerve sheath. It was refered to >as > >a "nerve root block shot."  The neurosurgeon who gave me the >injection > >said that only about 60% respond well.  A friend who is an > >anaesthesiologist and himself gives these shots said that my odds >were > >lower as the surgery I had in the area makes needle placement more > >difficult.  I am wondering if I should get another shot. Seems like >you > >haven’t had good luck with them.  But I sure would like to get rid of > >this pain. The pain I am suffering from is rather odd in that my >range > >of motion doesn’t seem to be effected and I remain strong.  It just > >hurts like hell from glute to botton of hamstring and I get very >nasty > >jolts all the way down the leg frequently, especially when I roll >over > >in bed.  I hope to get enough feedback from this group to give me >some > >guidance, but am also concerned that "success" stories may not be > >participating, and only those still > >Before you buy. > " Because you have the most marvelous youth, and youth is the one >thing worth having." >Before you buy.

" Because you have the most marvelous youth, and youth is the one thing worth having."                     Oscar Wilde

Response:

Dr Work, I found this statement interesting. Could you please expound for me please? My doctor said, she was reluctant to give me break through medication, because some pain can get so bad, that nothing will treat it, so no more morpine would do the trick. Why is that – or do I have to get an order from my neurologist to give me breakthrough meds, even though he allready stated it in his original referring letter. Can one have too much morphine even when it is not working? Can it stop working? *sigh* I thought I could trust my doc. I sometimes feel I am fighting a losing battle, though I WANT to believe. Thanks Doc, Shauna Dr Work wrote; – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> second misconception is that you will develop "a tolerance to any of the > meds to the point where they no longer work."  That will never happen as > evidenced by the latter case I mentioned above.  How much narcotics is > enough?  Enough but not too much…that is the correct answer.

Response:

Dawn – with time released morphine I have had no feeling of ‘out of my headedness’ and my best friend expressed to me, that there is a differrent person between me now, pleasant on MS – elon and unpleasant and otherworldly in pain and on the wrong pain meds. I am a different person. And I only feel sleepy now, but that is starting to get better, one month later….. Take heart – I was scared too, but I am glad I did it. Shauna – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > This is a learning curve for me…I worked as a hospice volunteer for > eight years and understand the the need for strong pain meds.  I have a > hard time understanding it for myself.  I was dx with RA 4 years ago and > finally have it under control with Enbrel, Pred, and MTX>  My back has > been a problem for quite awhile and I understand the idea that it is > deteriorating to the point of stronger pain meds but it still scares me. > I believe in quality of life and I hope this next step to morphine does > not limit that. > Dawn0 > Roger, I am glad you have found relief.  But I want to correct a few > misconceptions you stated.  One, the dose for narcotics "at the same doses > as a terminal cancer patient" is a misnomer since I have one woman dying of > breast cancer with mets to the jaw that is being adequately treated with an > occasional Vicodin, while I have a cervical cancer patient who was finally > put on to a Dilaudid pump with an equivalency dose of 240 mg of morphine an > hour.  She is finally out of pain.  Her pain is exacerbated with a spiritual > component that is VERY DIFFICULT to treat and she requires a lot more > narcotics because of her emotional state and her denial of her dying. The > second misconception is that you will develop "a tolerance to any of the > meds to the point where they no longer work."  That will never happen as > evidenced by the latter case I mentioned above.  How much narcotics is > enough?  Enough but not too much…that is the correct answer. > Hope that has helped clear some things up. > — > Bill Work > > Dawn0, > > I have been using narcotics for moderate to severe pain > > since 1966. During the last 10 years my condition had > > greatly worsened. I have been put on more powerful meds and > > increasingly higher doses. My current doctors have me on the > > same meds at the same doses as a terminal cancer patient. > > But I have never built up a tolerance to any of the meds to > > the point where they no longer work. You should not worry > > about that. You are very fortunate that you have an > > enlightened doctor that will give you the medication you > > need to help you control your pain. > > I wish you a pain free future and all the best. > > Rog > — > The time you enjoyed wasting really wasn’t wasted.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I have a long history of back problems.  Cleared > things up with an anterior and posterior fusion at > l.4-l.5 4 years ago, but have had growing sciatic > pain (mainly hamstring and glute areas with jolts > all the way down) over the last several months. > Just had a nerve root block shot of steroids and > some kind of analgesic last week and it actually > made things worse.  Has anyone in this goup had > similar injections, tried the series of 3? > thanks, > Before you buy. > I’ve had a series of two epidural injections & did not continue on the > the third, because it was ineffective. Have you had any recent MRI > three years ago, but it did not clear up my problems. I found out about > a year ago my L5-S1 is now bulging, or herniated. It could be possible > one of your other discs has "given out" now due to more strain on them > because of the loss of flexibility at L4-5. I think I also had a nerve > root block by a different MD with no success. (It may have been another > epidural, but if it was, it was a really deep injection and done under > x-ray or some sort of imaging equipment.) Might be time for an MRI, or > disco gram, perish the thought… > Good luck, > ras~

Ras- Thanks for the informative post. I have had an MRI and CAT Scan done fairly recently.  No herniation, but lots of arthritic growths around L5-S1 and a good deal of fluid in my right SI joint.  I believe that the shot I had last week was not a epidural, but rather like the "deep" injection you had as it was done under a flouroscope (like an x-ray) and put the medication around the sciatic nerve sheath. It was refered to as a "nerve root block shot."  The neurosurgeon who gave me the injection said that only about 60% respond well.  A friend who is an anaesthesiologist and himself gives these shots said that my odds were lower as the surgery I had in the area makes needle placement more difficult.  I am wondering if I should get another shot. Seems like you haven’t had good luck with them.  But I sure would like to get rid of this pain. The pain I am suffering from is rather odd in that my range of motion doesn’t seem to be effected and I remain strong.  It just hurts like hell from glute to botton of hamstring and I get very nasty jolts all the way down the leg frequently, especially when I roll over in bed.  I hope to get enough feedback from this group to give me some guidance, but am also concerned that "success" stories may not be participating, and only those still Before you buy.

Response:

> I have a long history of back problems.  Cleared > things up with an anterior and posterior fusion at > l.4-l.5 4 years ago, but have had growing sciatic > pain (mainly hamstring and glute areas with jolts > all the way down) over the last several months. > Just had a nerve root block shot of steroids and > some kind of analgesic last week and it actually > made things worse.  Has anyone in this goup had > similar injections, tried the series of 3? > thanks, > Before you buy.

I’ve had a series of two epidural injections & did not continue on the the third, because it was ineffective. Have you had any recent MRI three years ago, but it did not clear up my problems. I found out about a year ago my L5-S1 is now bulging, or herniated. It could be possible one of your other discs has "given out" now due to more strain on them because of the loss of flexibility at L4-5. I think I also had a nerve root block by a different MD with no success. (It may have been another epidural, but if it was, it was a really deep injection and done under x-ray or some sort of imaging equipment.) Might be time for an MRI, or disco gram, perish the thought… Good luck, ras~

Response:

I have a long history of back problems.  Cleared things up with an anterior and posterior fusion at l.4-l.5 4 years ago, but have had growing sciatic pain (mainly hamstring and glute areas with jolts all the way down) over the last several months. Just had a nerve root block shot of steroids and some kind of analgesic last week and it actually made things worse.  Has anyone in this goup had similar injections, tried the series of 3? thanks, Before you buy.

Response:

Dawn, when the morphine is properly given, it will give you back your life. Just make sure you continue to poop every day…the number one problem with chronic narcotic use. — Bill Work

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> This is a learning curve for me…I worked as a hospice volunteer for > eight years and understand the the need for strong pain meds.  I have a > hard time understanding it for myself.  I was dx with RA 4 years ago and > finally have it under control with Enbrel, Pred, and MTX>  My back has > been a problem for quite awhile and I understand the idea that it is > deteriorating to the point of stronger pain meds but it still scares me. > I believe in quality of life and I hope this next step to morphine does > not limit that. > Dawn0 > Roger, I am glad you have found relief.  But I want to correct a few > misconceptions you stated.  One, the dose for narcotics "at the same doses > as a terminal cancer patient" is a misnomer since I have one woman dying of > breast cancer with mets to the jaw that is being adequately treated with an > occasional Vicodin, while I have a cervical cancer patient who was finally > put on to a Dilaudid pump with an equivalency dose of 240 mg of morphine an > hour.  She is finally out of pain.  Her pain is exacerbated with a spiritual > component that is VERY DIFFICULT to treat and she requires a lot more > narcotics because of her emotional state and her denial of her dying. The > second misconception is that you will develop "a tolerance to any of the > meds to the point where they no longer work."  That will never happen as > evidenced by the latter case I mentioned above.  How much narcotics is > enough?  Enough but not too much…that is the correct answer. > Hope that has helped clear some things up. > — > Bill Work > > Dawn0, > > I have been using narcotics for moderate to severe pain > > since 1966. During the last 10 years my condition had > > greatly worsened. I have been put on more powerful meds and > > increasingly higher doses. My current doctors have me on the > > same meds at the same doses as a terminal cancer patient. > > But I have never built up a tolerance to any of the meds to > > the point where they no longer work. You should not worry > > about that. You are very fortunate that you have an > > enlightened doctor that will give you the medication you > > need to help you control your pain. > > I wish you a pain free future and all the best. > > Rog > — > The time you enjoyed wasting really wasn’t wasted.

Response:

This is a learning curve for me…I worked as a hospice volunteer for eight years and understand the the need for strong pain meds.  I have a hard time understanding it for myself.  I was dx with RA 4 years ago and finally have it under control with Enbrel, Pred, and MTX>  My back has been a problem for quite awhile and I understand the idea that it is deteriorating to the point of stronger pain meds but it still scares me. I believe in quality of life and I hope this next step to morphine does not limit that. Dawn0 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Roger, I am glad you have found relief.  But I want to correct a few > misconceptions you stated.  One, the dose for narcotics "at the same doses > as a terminal cancer patient" is a misnomer since I have one woman dying of > breast cancer with mets to the jaw that is being adequately treated with an > occasional Vicodin, while I have a cervical cancer patient who was finally > put on to a Dilaudid pump with an equivalency dose of 240 mg of morphine an > hour.  She is finally out of pain.  Her pain is exacerbated with a spiritual > component that is VERY DIFFICULT to treat and she requires a lot more > narcotics because of her emotional state and her denial of her dying.  The > second misconception is that you will develop "a tolerance to any of the > meds to the point where they no longer work."  That will never happen as > evidenced by the latter case I mentioned above.  How much narcotics is > enough?  Enough but not too much…that is the correct answer. > Hope that has helped clear some things up. > — > Bill Work > Dawn0, > I have been using narcotics for moderate to severe pain > since 1966. During the last 10 years my condition had > greatly worsened. I have been put on more powerful meds and > increasingly higher doses. My current doctors have me on the > same meds at the same doses as a terminal cancer patient. > But I have never built up a tolerance to any of the meds to > the point where they no longer work. You should not worry > about that. You are very fortunate that you have an > enlightened doctor that will give you the medication you > need to help you control your pain. > I wish you a pain free future and all the best. > Rog

– The time you enjoyed wasting really wasn’t wasted.

Response:

> Alec, I have been speaking with the compounding pharmacist that my hospice > uses and he and I are going to start "experimenting" with morphine gel.  He > said to rub it into the wrist area since the skin is the thinnest with the > most vascular content for absorption in about 10-15 minutes.  We have a > patient with AIDS and gastric carcinoma who now is no longer able to take > oral meds though he has a gastric tube.  We can’t crush the MS Contin he is > on so we will start to give it rectally.  For right now, Roxanol (liquid > morphine) can be given through the G-tube but there will come a time with > his CA that he won’t tolerate anything more in his stomach, no matter the > route.  Then I want to use the gel for breakthrough pain while using the MS > Contin rectally for the chronic relief. > I’ll keep you informed.

Get your chemist to add DMSO to the gel. It’ll penetrate as much as ten times faster. Your patient will get relief in under a minute. You may want to look at PLO gel and morphine on the shoulders for chronic pain. It’s slower but will provide 12+ hours of relief. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> — > Bill Work > <SNIP> > I’m on morphine and oxycodone and clonidine and dextromethorphan… > If you’re on morphine then you’ll build up a tolerance, guaranteed. > So they’ll up the dosage. There’s no top to the amount of morphine that > you can > take as long as it’s increased to cover the tolerance and pain increase > only. > If it gets too high to take orally, there is the morphine pump implant. > Also > coming soon will be pain gels with opiate content. > So don’t worry about it and be glad that you have a pain doctor who’ll > prescribe > opiates for pain!

–

Response:

Bill, Thank you for the reply, I don’t remember saying I found relief. But I am a lot closer to it than I was 2 years ago! I am only the patient. I was only quoting what my Doctor said. And, for what it is worth, since he said that, I have found others that are hospice patients on less than I and many on more than I. My doctor said that in response to my request for "something that will allow me to spend less time in bed" and following my plea to him that, "I do not want to spend the rest of my life at this level of pain". Then he said the above. I totally agree that you cannot build up a tolerance to the point of the narcotic not working. I was responding to ‘newbie’ who expressed that concern when they had stated their concern that they might. I also totally agree with your definition of enough. Last week I stupidly too my grandson for a short ride outside in my wheelchair. It was over 100 degrees during the daytime almost that whole week. I badly overheated my patch. 7 or 8 hours later, I was pain free for the first time since 1966! About an hour after that I was one sick puppy. It took a compazine sup. and hung on to the "bowl" for most of the night until I got over it. The tech from Janssen chewed me out for going out without a shirt and/or going out at all if the temp is over 95. But for a little while in the middle of all that. I knew what "enough" felt like. I would dearly like to experience it again… without the "bowl" part later. Also, I have really enjoyed your contributions to this group. I don’t know how you find the time. But I’m glad you do. Rog – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Roger, I am glad you have found relief.  But I want to correct a few > misconceptions you stated.  One, the dose for narcotics "at the same doses > as a terminal cancer patient" is a misnomer since I have one woman dying of > breast cancer with mets to the jaw that is being adequately treated with an > occasional Vicodin, while I have a cervical cancer patient who was finally > put on to a Dilaudid pump with an equivalency dose of 240 mg of morphine an > hour.  She is finally out of pain.  Her pain is exacerbated with a spiritual > component that is VERY DIFFICULT to treat and she requires a lot more > narcotics because of her emotional state and her denial of her dying.  The > second misconception is that you will develop "a tolerance to any of the > meds to the point where they no longer work."  That will never happen as > evidenced by the latter case I mentioned above.  How much narcotics is > enough?  Enough but not too much…that is the correct answer. > Hope that has helped clear some things up. > — > Bill Work > Dawn0, > I have been using narcotics for moderate to severe pain > since 1966. During the last 10 years my condition had > greatly worsened. I have been put on more powerful meds and > increasingly higher doses. My current doctors have me on the > same meds at the same doses as a terminal cancer patient. > But I have never built up a tolerance to any of the meds to > the point where they no longer work. You should not worry > about that. You are very fortunate that you have an > enlightened doctor that will give you the medication you > need to help you control your pain. > I wish you a pain free future and all the best. > Rog

Response:

Alec, I have been speaking with the compounding pharmacist that my hospice uses and he and I are going to start "experimenting" with morphine gel.  He said to rub it into the wrist area since the skin is the thinnest with the most vascular content for absorption in about 10-15 minutes.  We have a patient with AIDS and gastric carcinoma who now is no longer able to take oral meds though he has a gastric tube.  We can’t crush the MS Contin he is on so we will start to give it rectally.  For right now, Roxanol (liquid morphine) can be given through the G-tube but there will come a time with his CA that he won’t tolerate anything more in his stomach, no matter the route.  Then I want to use the gel for breakthrough pain while using the MS Contin rectally for the chronic relief. I’ll keep you informed. — Bill Work

<SNIP> – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’m on morphine and oxycodone and clonidine and dextromethorphan… > If you’re on morphine then you’ll build up a tolerance, guaranteed. > So they’ll up the dosage. There’s no top to the amount of morphine that you can > take as long as it’s increased to cover the tolerance and pain increase only. > If it gets too high to take orally, there is the morphine pump implant. Also > coming soon will be pain gels with opiate content. > So don’t worry about it and be glad that you have a pain doctor who’ll prescribe > opiates for pain!

Response:

Dawn0, I have been using narcotics for moderate to severe pain since 1966. During the last 10 years my condition had greatly worsened. I have been put on more powerful meds and increasingly higher doses. My current doctors have me on the same meds at the same doses as a terminal cancer patient. But I have never built up a tolerance to any of the meds to the point where they no longer work. You should not worry about that. You are very fortunate that you have an enlightened doctor that will give you the medication you need to help you control your pain. I wish you a pain free future and all the best. Rog – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hi, >   I have RA, DDD and DFD.  In the past I have had epidurals to control > the back pain.  My last injection was a year ago and I had been doing > fine.  However, that is not the case now, I have severe back pain along > with sciatica in my left leg.  I have a hard time sitting and then > standing.  I take Vicodin for pain and that is now longer holding the > pain.  I saw a pain specialist today and he is doing another epidural > and said we would talk about other pain meds at that time.  He mentioned > morphine.  That sounds so scary to me, if I build a tolerence to it what > is next? > Dawn0 > — > The time you enjoyed wasting really wasn’t wasted.

Response:

> Dawn0, > I have been using narcotics for moderate to severe pain > since 1966. During the last 10 years my condition had > greatly worsened. I have been put on more powerful meds and > increasingly higher doses. My current doctors have me on the > same meds at the same doses as a terminal cancer patient. > But I have never built up a tolerance to any of the meds to > the point where they no longer work. You should not worry > about that. You are very fortunate that you have an > enlightened doctor that will give you the medication you > need to help you control your pain. > I wish you a pain free future and all the best. > Rog

Amen to That !  And welcome to the group, you’ll find the best to first-hand expertise here. codeee – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi, >   I have RA, DDD and DFD.  In the past I have had epidurals to control > the back pain.  My last injection was a year ago and I had been doing > fine.  However, that is not the case now, I have severe back pain along > with sciatica in my left leg.  I have a hard time sitting and then > standing.  I take Vicodin for pain and that is now longer holding the > pain.  I saw a pain specialist today and he is doing another epidural > and said we would talk about other pain meds at that time.  He mentioned > morphine.  That sounds so scary to me, if I build a tolerence to it what > is next? > Dawn0 > — > The time you enjoyed wasting really wasn’t wasted.

Before you buy.

Response:

Roger, I am glad you have found relief.  But I want to correct a few misconceptions you stated.  One, the dose for narcotics "at the same doses as a terminal cancer patient" is a misnomer since I have one woman dying of breast cancer with mets to the jaw that is being adequately treated with an occasional Vicodin, while I have a cervical cancer patient who was finally put on to a Dilaudid pump with an equivalency dose of 240 mg of morphine an hour.  She is finally out of pain.  Her pain is exacerbated with a spiritual component that is VERY DIFFICULT to treat and she requires a lot more narcotics because of her emotional state and her denial of her dying.  The second misconception is that you will develop "a tolerance to any of the meds to the point where they no longer work."  That will never happen as evidenced by the latter case I mentioned above.  How much narcotics is enough?  Enough but not too much…that is the correct answer. Hope that has helped clear some things up. — Bill Work

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Dawn0, > I have been using narcotics for moderate to severe pain > since 1966. During the last 10 years my condition had > greatly worsened. I have been put on more powerful meds and > increasingly higher doses. My current doctors have me on the > same meds at the same doses as a terminal cancer patient. > But I have never built up a tolerance to any of the meds to > the point where they no longer work. You should not worry > about that. You are very fortunate that you have an > enlightened doctor that will give you the medication you > need to help you control your pain. > I wish you a pain free future and all the best. > Rog

Response:

>Hi, >  I have RA, DDD and DFD.  In the past I have had epidurals to control >the back pain.  My last injection was a year ago and I had been doing >fine.  However, that is not the case now, I have severe back pain along >with sciatica in my left leg.  I have a hard time sitting and then >standing.  I take Vicodin for pain and that is now longer holding the >pain.  I saw a pain specialist today and he is doing another epidural >and said we would talk about other pain meds at that time.  He mentioned >morphine.  That sounds so scary to me, if I build a tolerence to it what >is next? >Dawn0

Whooooo!  Dawn, hey girl!  I just posted my first post here today too! <g> Although I may be run out of here real quick….hehehehe! I’m so very sorry you’re having such a rough spell with the pain.  Wish I could offer some tips, but you and I both know it’s a pistol, and every individual has pain levels that are often not even tolerable. But it’s so nice to see a kindred spirit whatever the circumstances.   *Hugs* to a super lady….. Kitt

Response:

> Hi, >   I have RA, DDD and DFD.  In the past I have had epidurals to control > the back pain.  My last injection was a year ago and I had been doing > fine.  However, that is not the case now, I have severe back pain along > with sciatica in my left leg.  I have a hard time sitting and then > standing.  I take Vicodin for pain and that is now longer holding the > pain.  I saw a pain specialist today and he is doing another epidural > and said we would talk about other pain meds at that time.  He mentioned > morphine.  That sounds so scary to me, if I build a tolerence to it what > is next? > Dawn0 > — > The time you enjoyed wasting really wasn’t wasted.

Then you take more. There isn’t a ceiling for it when taken for chronic pain. Will

Response:

Hi,   I have RA, DDD and DFD.  In the past I have had epidurals to control the back pain.  My last injection was a year ago and I had been doing fine.  However, that is not the case now, I have severe back pain along with sciatica in my left leg.  I have a hard time sitting and then standing.  I take Vicodin for pain and that is now longer holding the pain.  I saw a pain specialist today and he is doing another epidural and said we would talk about other pain meds at that time.  He mentioned morphine.  That sounds so scary to me, if I build a tolerence to it what is next? Dawn0 — The time you enjoyed wasting really wasn’t wasted.

Response:

> Hi, >   I have RA, DDD and DFD.  In the past I have had epidurals to control > the back pain.  My last injection was a year ago and I had been doing > fine.  However, that is not the case now, I have severe back pain along > with sciatica in my left leg.  I have a hard time sitting and then > standing.  I take Vicodin for pain and that is now longer holding the > pain.  I saw a pain specialist today and he is doing another epidural > and said we would talk about other pain meds at that time.  He mentioned > morphine.  That sounds so scary to me, if I build a tolerence to it what > is next? > Dawn0

I’m on morphine and oxycodone and clonidine and dextromethorphan… If you’re on morphine then you’ll build up a tolerance, guaranteed. So they’ll up the dosage. There’s no top to the amount of morphine that you can take as long as it’s increased to cover the tolerance and pain increase only. If it gets too high to take orally, there is the morphine pump implant. Also coming soon will be pain gels with opiate content. So don’t worry about it and be glad that you have a pain doctor who’ll prescribe opiates for pain! —

Response:

        Hi everyone. Iam newly diagnosed and feeling sorry for myself at the moment.All the things I have to cut out of my diet. A whole new life style and all that.I go for my diabetes education meeting on the 31st of July where I will learn more about the diet and testing BSL’s. It will be good to meet other diabetics.

Response:

Anglesea) Scribbled: >    Hi everyone. Iam newly diagnosed and feeling sorry for myself >at the moment.All the things I have to cut out of my diet. A whole new >life style and all that.I go for my diabetes education meeting on the >31st of July where I will learn more about the diet and testing BSL’s. >It will be good to meet other diabetics.

Welcome…. Some things will not in your diet but you can discover new things you might like better!  Many have also found in some ways you will become healthier.. Glad you stopped by… Ronnie Ruff * take a break driver8 you’ve been on this train too long*  R.E.M * It’s just D, C ang G * Peter Buck Out the 10/BT, through the hub, down the cable modem, over the fiber optics, off the bridge, past the head end office….nothing but Net!

Response:

Jenni, Welcome here.  I hope you stick around as I’ve been here nearly 3 months (and as diagnosed April 4), and it has been tremendously good to hear all the different experiences & ideas of others, and to tie that in with my own diabetes classes, which also helped.   But the first couple or so weeks after my diagnosis, I was a wreck & was in a real mourning period, with plenty of outbursts of rage… especially around mealtime, or when planning my shopping list.   Changes are hard, even when they’re for the good! We’ll understand you here, and I hope you get a lot out of interacting with us. It’s late (my midnight posting deadline is past… which means I’m prone to typing & breaks in my logic), so I’ll say more later.  Please tell us more about yourself & your diagnosis when you have a moment, and ask whatever questions you’d like.  Or just sit back & watch for awhile, and you’ll learn heaps, too.   If the medical/equipment posts are a bit too technical for you, as they were for me, skip over them until you’re ready to take in a bit at a time.  With this diagnosis, if you have my personality, you’ll want to learn everything at once & will get overwhelmed…  it’s easier if you just learn my osmosis & it will start making sense in its own time.   Myself… I’m still having little ‘ah ha’ events.  I’m sure I’m not 100% on track, and I’m glad I have this group to help.   I’m glad you found us. Krin Female, Age 35, Diagnosed 4/00, Type II (no meds/no insulin — controlling with diet/exercise & down 21 lbs. with changes made to date)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi everyone. Iam newly diagnosed and feeling sorry for myself > at the moment.All the things I have to cut out of my diet. A whole new > life style and all that.I go for my diabetes education meeting on the > 31st of July where I will learn more about the diet and testing BSL’s. > It will be good to meet other diabetics.

Response:

>    Hi everyone. Iam newly diagnosed and feeling sorry for myself > at the moment.All the things I have to cut out of my diet. A whole new > life style and all that.I go for my diabetes education meeting on the > 31st of July where I will learn more about the diet and testing BSL’s. > It will be good to meet other diabetics.

My personal feeling is that you don’t have to cut anything out of your diet, you just have to have smaller portions less often of some things and larger portions of other things more often. I have three food lists:  "Restricted", "Normal", and "Virtually Unlimited".  I eat a lot of foods from the last list, plenty from the Normal list, and eat from the Restricted list with great care concerning portions and frequency.  So I am never deprived of any food. These lists are different for everyone, and to find out which foods should be on what list, you really have to test your blood glucose bG about 2 hours after a meal.  Is it Jennifer who says you have to make your body a science experiment. In my case, my restricted foods include sweets, bread and flour products, rice, potatoes, corn, sweet peas.  My "normal" list includes onions, tomatoes, zucchini.  I eat "typical" portions of these.  On my "Virtually Unlimited" list I have cabbage, broccoli, cauliflower, Brussel sprouts, green beans, plus all of the leafy lettuces we use in salads. At first, you’ll want to test a lot to find out about the foods you eat and how they effect you.  Once you have analyzed how you eat and made some meal plans, you’ll be able to reduce your testing. Don’t forget to add exercise to your routine.  The easiest if you haven’t done much exercise recently is to walk.  The target is to walk 30 minutes at one time once per day.  If you can only walk five minutes, don’t let it worry you, do it everyday.  The next week you’ll be able to walk ten minutes. Here’s the good news, I’ve heard it over and over in this newsgroup: "I’m healthier since my diagnosis than I have been my entire adult life." Hang in there, we’ll help you all we can.  Read the group everyday. Those that read everyday have better results at keeping their bG (blood glucose) in control.  If you don’t yet have a meter, call your doctor and get one.  If you are in the USA, meters are often free when you buy the strips (around $60). Best health to you! Jude —                  - Coming Soon –  BestOrgs.NET         Oak Park, IL  708-848-0134  URL: http://www.pobox.com/~jcrouch

Response:

Jenni, welcome to the best diabetes group I’ve found on the net. I was diagnosed March 3 but suspected I had Diabetes about a week before that and fortunately, i found this group right away. Jude and most of the other people on here have helped me stay sane and get myself on track. If i can give you one piece of advice it would be this, listen to Jude when he suggests you get a meter and test, test, test! He knows of what he speaks.:)  This is a great place to get information, vent, ask questions, or just ramble some. hope you enjoy the group and learn a lot. Denise —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

Jenni Welcome to the group that no one wants to be in, but since we are we have formed a family here.  Join us and be part of that family.  And what Denise has told you about Jude is absolutely correct.  Take whatever he suggests as law, because he knows of what he speaks. Loretta Say what you mean and mean what you say

Response:

Welcome. I didn’t see your original post but have read the comments and will put my here here or is it hear,hear? I think the latter makes mre sense.Good luck to you and keep following the advice of a good endocrinologist and Jude also.Just ot backfrom a vacation so am just now catching up on the postings. Welcome aboard.My name is brenda.

Response:

>         Hi everyone. Iam newly diagnosed and feeling sorry for myself > at the moment.

Most of us have a shock and a "oh poor me" period sometime. I diagnosed myself, and didn’t feel "poor me" but I was a blown away that I was supposed to wait a few weeks to see a doctor and a dietician and totally paniced. Thankfully, I found this group within 48 hours and by reading the messages and exchanging information regularly, by the time I saw my doctor I was pretty well educated and able to ask good questions. All the things I have to cut out of my diet. You know there isn’t a diabetic diet anymore. We try eat as normally as we always did. Sure there’s a few things we’ll only see once in a while, and lots of others we may have to eat in much smaller portions. All my life I have loved genuine Coca Cola. There is no substitute. For many years as I would take in my first icy cold swallow and revel in the delicious taste, I would think I’m sure gonna miss this if I become a diabetic (Its in the family.) Well now I am and I do miss it. But I have them occasionally. I tend to go real low and dehydrate occasionally and I always keep one icy cold for that time. And once in a while I’ll have a small glass with a burger when eating out, and skip the fries. Of course I’m lucky that I caught it real early and so far I can manage with just diet and no meds needed. Maybe later I’ll have to forgo all together but for now once a month or so is enough. I’ve found a sugar free substitute that is decent although not the genuine article. Whatever your favorites are, you will likely find a way to have a taste now and then. A whole new > life style and all that.

While you may have to make significant changes, I’m sure there are big parts of your old life you can preserve.  Yes I had to face changing my driving habits, and I’ve had to test often when I’m driving around town. Yes I eat smaller more frequent meals. And I have to pay more attention to the clock. But I still have my marriage, my dogs, my hobbies, my ambitions, my dreams, my religion, my home, my garden, my friends. If you look I’m sure you will find a whole lot of your old life is still with you. It may seem that maybe diabetes isn’t affecting me as much as it is you right now. Maybe so. There is something that happens when many streses or tragedies happen in your life. After a while the shock from each lessens because you have already learned that life isn’t exactly what you plan all the time. I’ve already been through having a house stolen, having a husband diagnosed with a brain tumor, losing his memory in an operation, having a son diagnosed with dwarfism and mental illness, having a son kidnapped. Maybe for you, this is the first thing in your life that wasn’t in your life plan and something that right now you don’t see how you can recover from and return to your reality of a week ago. But I promise you will find a "normal" life again. It may not be the same normal you had before. You may not be heading for the same destination. You may not even have the same aspirations. But new life is ahead of you. Even with all the things I listed previously that redirected my life in places I didn’t plan to go, I have a new normal. I have a new nicer house. I have rebuilt my marriage. I have come to a point where even though I miss my son terribly and I frequently grieve, I also have days where I smile, and even laugh.  I can see a future and its more happy than sad.  You will find your way. Every day the sun comes up again and every day you will have another day of coping with diabetes and your new way of life and new way of eating behind you. And as those days accumulate normal will happen again without your even noticing. I’m not saying you won’t have days of grief, and anger, rebellion and a zillion other feelings, but every way in every way, you will get better and better (to steal a phrase from the pink panther movies). I go for my diabetes education meeting on the > 31st of July where I will learn more about the diet and testing BSL’s. > It will be good to meet other diabetics.

We welcome you here and we’re sorry you had to come. But stick around. Read the messages every day. You’ll be suprised how soon you pick up useful information. And tell us more about what you and your lifestyle. You will find there is someone here who is just like you in sooo many ways and a few days week months or even years ahead of you to help you on you journey. HUGS Carol D.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->         Hi everyone. Iam newly diagnosed and feeling sorry for myself > at the moment. >Most of us have a shock and a "oh poor me" period sometime. I diagnosed >myself, and didn’t feel "poor me" but I was a blown away that I was >supposed to wait a few weeks to see a doctor and a dietician and totally >paniced. Thankfully, I found this group within 48 hours and by reading >the messages and exchanging information regularly, by the time I saw my >doctor I was pretty well educated and able to ask good questions. >All the things I have to cut out of my diet. >You know there isn’t a diabetic diet anymore. We try eat as normally as >we always did. Sure there’s a few things we’ll only see once in a while, >and lots of others we may have to eat in much smaller portions. All my >life I have loved genuine Coca Cola. There is no substitute. For many >years as I would take in my first icy cold swallow and revel in the >delicious taste, I would think I’m sure gonna miss this if I become a >diabetic (Its in the family.) Well now I am and I do miss it. But I have >them occasionally. I tend to go real low and dehydrate occasionally and >I always keep one icy cold for that time. And once in a while I’ll have >a small glass with a burger when eating out, and skip the fries. >Of course I’m lucky that I caught it real early and so far I can manage >with just diet and no meds needed. Maybe later I’ll have to forgo all >together but for now once a month or so is enough. I’ve found a sugar >free substitute that is decent although not the genuine article. >Whatever your favorites are, you will likely find a way to have a taste >now and then. >A whole new > life style and all that. >While you may have to make significant changes, I’m sure there are big >parts of your old life you can preserve.  Yes I had to face changing my >driving habits, and I’ve had to test often when I’m driving around town. >Yes I eat smaller more frequent meals. And I have to pay more attention >to the clock. >But I still have my marriage, my dogs, my hobbies, my ambitions, my >dreams, my religion, my home, my garden, my friends. If you look I’m >sure you will find a whole lot of your old life is still with you. >It may seem that maybe diabetes isn’t affecting me as much as it is you >right now. Maybe so. There is something that happens when many streses >or tragedies happen in your life. After a while the shock from each >lessens because you have already learned that life isn’t exactly what >you plan all the time. I’ve already been through having a house stolen, >having a husband diagnosed with a brain tumor, losing his memory in an >operation, having a son diagnosed with dwarfism and mental illness, >having a son kidnapped. >Maybe for you, this is the first thing in your life that wasn’t in your >life plan and something that right now you don’t see how you can recover >from and return to your reality of a week ago. But I promise you will >find a "normal" life again. It may not be the same normal you had >before. You may not be heading for the same destination. You may not >even have the same aspirations. But new life is ahead of you. >Even with all the things I listed previously that redirected my life in >places I didn’t plan to go, I have a new normal. I have a new nicer >house. I have rebuilt my marriage. I have come to a point where even >though I miss my son terribly and I frequently grieve, I also have days >where I smile, and even laugh.  I can see a future and its more happy >than sad.  You will find your way. Every day the sun comes up again and >every day you will have another day of coping with diabetes and your new >way of life and new way of eating behind you. And as those days >accumulate normal will happen again without your even noticing. >I’m not saying you won’t have days of grief, and anger, rebellion and a >zillion other feelings, but every way in every way, you will get better >and better (to steal a phrase from the pink panther movies). >I go for my diabetes education meeting on the > 31st of July where I will learn more about the diet and testing BSL’s. > It will be good to meet other diabetics. >We welcome you here and we’re sorry you had to come. But stick around. >Read the messages every day. You’ll be suprised how soon you pick up >useful information. And tell us more about what you and your lifestyle. >You will find there is someone here who is just like you in sooo many >ways and a few days week months or even years ahead of you to help you >on you journey. >HUGS >Carol D.

Hugs back to you Carol, and many thanks to all that have written back here for me to read. Iam starting to accept things a bit better now and I know that I will ajust to the changes that I make. Is it ok to drink diet coke as Iam also a coke freak?

Response:

> Iam starting to accept things a bit better now and I know that I will > ajust to the changes that I make. > Is it ok to drink diet coke as Iam also a coke freak?

Yup.  There is only 1 calorie in a 250 ml drink.  I was told when I had my gestational diabetes that I could drink all the diet cola that I wanted. Darned good thing, too — I’ve always drank diet cola because I don’t like the syrupy taste of regular coke.  I *only* drink at least 2 litres of diet cola per day! <VBG> Kelly I’m having an out of money experience.

Response:

I drink litres of caffeine free diet pepsi, I love it. Never have liked coke and hate sweetened coke ever more than the diet stuff.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – message > Iam starting to accept things a bit better now and I know that I will > ajust to the changes that I make. > Is it ok to drink diet coke as Iam also a coke freak? > Yup.  There is only 1 calorie in a 250 ml drink.  I was told when I had my > gestational diabetes that I could drink all the diet cola that I wanted. > Darned good thing, too — I’ve always drank diet cola

because I don’t like – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> the syrupy taste of regular coke.  I *only* drink at least 2 litres of diet > cola per day! <VBG> > Kelly > I’m having an out of money experience.

Response:

Jenni, If you’re new to diet drinks & end up finding an aftertaste problem/aversion, I would suggest from my experience that you A) wait a little while & try again after a month or two of NOT drinking the regular sodas, and B) try several different types, for you might like one & not another.   My personal experience was to totally be averse to drinking diet stuff due to aftertastes.  After my March diagnosis, I stuck to unsweetened tea, water and that was about it (with milk being a carbohydrate, I don’t see it as a drink, but as part of a meal plan).   I tried different diet drinks, and even ordered some online that are sweetened with Splenda (because others swore there was no aftertaste).  I found they had a different but distinct aftertaste.   But another month passed, and one day I was particularly missing sodas, so I tried a Diet Pepsi.  Voila!  I could stand it.  Especially drinking it between bites of 12 dietarily acceptable peanut M&M’s (a special treat, but counted in my meal plan).  I was soooo happy.  I tried Pepsi One next, and liked it even better.  Sticking with just these two a few weeks, I again tried the Splenda-flavored drinks I’d bought.. which were Slim Jones.  I found I could enjoy the Creame Soda Slim Jones quite a bit, even with the aftertaste.  The Black Cherry & Lemon/lime ones are less favored, so if I order more Slim Jones (kinda pricey), I’ll just make it Creme Soda as an occasional treat.    But last week I found out I liked Diet Coke now.  I’ve tried it so many times in the past & couldn’t get past one sip.  Now it’s not bugging me.  I guess it’s a matter of getting used to it.  Or was for me.  Some people never get that aversion, but I didn’t think I’d ever overcome it.   Now I’m trying other stuff & liking it, too (Diet Dr. Pepper, at least).  I buy just one at the convenience stores & if I like it, can buy more.   I’m just glad to have a few more choices, even if I’m not drinking as much soda as I used to.  I don’t like the caffeine addiction aspect & that it’s hard on my stomach, even without the sugar/carbs. Krin

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Iam starting to accept things a bit better now and I know that I will > ajust to the changes that I make. > Is it ok to drink diet coke as Iam also a coke freak? > Yup.  There is only 1 calorie in a 250 ml drink.  I was told when I had my > gestational diabetes that I could drink all the diet cola that I wanted. > Darned good thing, too — I’ve always drank diet cola because I don’t like > the syrupy taste of regular coke.  I *only* drink at least 2 litres of diet > cola per day! <VBG> > Kelly > I’m having an out of money experience.

Response:

> Jenni, > If you’re new to diet drinks & end up finding an aftertaste > problem/aversion,

Krin, I haven’t had a diet drink available in Australia that has an after taste.  Do your diet drinks have after taste more often than not??  I have preferences for the ones I drink.  Mine is diet pepsi or one I am drinking now – a mineral water with lemon, lime & bitters – it has 5% lemon/lime juice sweetened with aspartame and cyclamate.

Response:

> Krin, I haven’t had a diet drink available in Australia that > has an after taste.  Do your diet drinks have after taste > more often than not??  I have preferences for the ones I > drink.  Mine is diet pepsi or one I am drinking now – a > mineral water with lemon, lime & bitters – it has 5% > lemon/lime juice sweetened with aspartame and cyclamate.

I really think the aftertaste/non-aftertaste thing is individual, not national.  I remember in high school biology class, they illustrated the dominant/recessive gene theory in various ways.  Among them was this little piece of paper they gave out to each person in class & then asked us to put it to our tongue.  For 60% of the class, there was no particular ‘taste’ to the paper.  For 40% (myself included), there was a somewhat unpleasant bitter taste.     I think, while it’s just my untested rationale here, that it really does illustrate how individual our sense of taste can be.   My stepdad says he can’t tell the difference between diet & non-diet soda. But on my birthday last month, my boyfriend zoned out & brought me a non-diet Pepsi after I’d been drinking diet Pepsi for a month, and I knew it was too nice tasting to be diet.  He admitted he had forgotten.   I guess the test will be to see if I know the difference after a year or two with diet drinks.   I hope so since some people here on the group are explaining how often they are mistakenly served the real sugar sodas, by accident or design. Krin

Response:

> Krin, I haven’t had a diet drink available in Australia that > has an after taste.  Do your diet drinks have after taste > more often than not??  I have preferences for the ones I > drink.  Mine is diet pepsi or one I am drinking now – a > mineral water with lemon, lime & bitters – it has 5% > lemon/lime juice sweetened with aspartame and cyclamate.

Cyclamates were banned in the US in the 60s (some lab rats got cancer)…I liked diet soft drinks back then.  I later found that I could drink either diet 7 Up or Fresca (both citrusy, which I suspect helped mask the aftertaste from the saccharine), but with the advent of aspartame all of that changed.  I was at a party and got some diet 7 Up without noticing the "new and improved" label on the 2 liter bottle.  I nearly gagged on it.  However I have tried the diet drinks off and on for years now (it was late 1983 when I had my first aspartame "experience") and still find that I just can’t tolerate the taste of aspartame…it’s not so much an AFTER taste (though that’s pretty awful, too), but the immediate taste in my mouth…the aspartame overwhelms all other flavors to me.  Maybe if it were moderated with cyclamates, I’d find it more palatable, I don’t know.  I think that there are some of us who simply do not respond to its "sweetness" in the same way that others do, just as some people find the potassium chloride salt substitutes totally abhorent and others can’t tell the difference between them and sodium chloride. Carol P.

Response:

I can usually tell the difference which is why I picked up on a McDonalds real coke instead of the diet it should have been.  As I had brought it home with me I tested it and I was right.  But suppose I had been very sensitive to carbs, and had a huge spike and a big downer following it, people are so careless.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – message > Krin, I haven’t had a diet drink available in Australia that > has an after taste.  Do your diet drinks have after taste > more often than not??  I have preferences for the ones I > drink.  Mine is diet pepsi or one I am drinking now – a > mineral water with lemon, lime & bitters – it has 5% > lemon/lime juice sweetened with aspartame and cyclamate. > I really think the aftertaste/non-aftertaste thing is individual, not > national.  I remember in high school biology class, they illustrated the > dominant/recessive gene theory in various ways.  Among

them was this little > piece of paper they gave out to each person in class &

then asked us to put > it to our tongue.  For 60% of the class, there was no

particular ‘taste’ to > the paper.  For 40% (myself included), there was a somewhat unpleasant > bitter taste.     I think, while it’s just my untested

rationale here, that > it really does illustrate how individual our sense of taste can be.   My > stepdad says he can’t tell the difference between diet & non-diet soda. > But on my birthday last month, my boyfriend zoned out & brought me a > non-diet Pepsi after I’d been drinking diet Pepsi for a

month, and I knew it > was too nice tasting to be diet.  He admitted he had

forgotten.   I guess > the test will be to see if I know the difference after a year or two with > diet drinks.   I hope so since some people here on the

group are explaining – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> how often they are mistakenly served the real sugar sodas, by accident or > design. > Krin

Response:

The majority of diet drinks here are sweetened with just aspartame, cyclamates are rare additives these days but do exist.  From memory the lab rats were fed absolutely ginormous amounts of the substance before they got cancer.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Krin, I haven’t had a diet drink available in Australia that > has an after taste.  Do your diet drinks have after taste > more often than not??  I have preferences for the ones I > drink.  Mine is diet pepsi or one I am drinking now – a > mineral water with lemon, lime & bitters – it has 5% > lemon/lime juice sweetened with aspartame and cyclamate. > Cyclamates were banned in the US in the 60s (some lab rats got > cancer)…I liked diet soft drinks back then.  I later found that I > could drink either diet 7 Up or Fresca (both citrusy, which I suspect > helped mask the aftertaste from the saccharine), but with the advent of > aspartame all of that changed.  I was at a party and got some diet 7 Up > without noticing the "new and improved" label on the 2 liter bottle.  I > nearly gagged on it.  However I have tried the diet drinks off and on > for years now (it was late 1983 when I had my first aspartame > "experience") and still find that I just can’t tolerate the taste of > aspartame…it’s not so much an AFTER taste (though that’s pretty awful, > too), but the immediate taste in my mouth…the aspartame overwhelms all > other flavors to me.  Maybe if it were moderated with cyclamates, I’d > find it more palatable, I don’t know.  I think that there are some of us > who simply do not respond to its "sweetness" in the same way that others > do, just as some people find the potassium chloride salt substitutes > totally abhorent and others can’t tell the difference between them and > sodium chloride. > Carol P.

Response:

> I can usually tell the difference which is why I picked up > on a McDonalds real coke instead of the diet it should have > been.  As I had brought it home with me I tested it and I > was right.  But suppose I had been very sensitive to carbs, > and had a huge spike and a big downer following it, people > are so careless

With the right lawyer & being in the US, you could have earned yourself a cool million.  LOL.  Remember McDonalds losing that lawsuit about the idiot woman who put hot coffee in her lap & spilled it.  She did have the emotional distress factor in her favor, but hey… McDonalds would probably settle for a million if confronted with more bad press from giving diabetics real coke instead of diet coke.    I wouldn’t do such a thing, but it might take someone doing it before they do something to protect the public from their careless employees.    I saw the worst case of a poorly run McDonalds two weeks ago when Dave insisted on taking me to one while shopping in a Super Wal-Mart (the kind with groceries in it).  Anyway, there was grease pooled up all inside the restaurant & being tracked, fries all over the floor, and the eating area was horrid, and tables were all some degree of dirty.  I thought about coming back with a camera, but their minimum wage earning 20-year-old manager would just get in trouble, and he was the only nice thing about my experience there.   I don’t know why he couldn’t keep the place clean, but his co-workers or employees there were VERY dull-witted.   They had a self-serve drink fountain, which is becoming more common in the US.  Unless they fill the machines with the wrong drinks, at least you have a little feeling of control over what you have to drink there. Krin

Response:

This is one of the best support groups you could ever latch on to but especially if you are new to diabetes you really ought to latch on to either in your local library or if you could afford it to join the ADA for $28.00 dues a year you get a wonderfu magazine called Diabetes Forecast. I just received my August issue and this one included a little pamphlet with the title "World’s Best Books" fro the diabetes experts. Includes first cookbook for ppeople with diabetes and many more. A lot of information. You won’t be sorry,I promise. Look in your library first and see what you think. Besides you are then supporting your own cause as well as getting a font of knowledge.

Response:

> The majority of diet drinks here are sweetened with just > aspartame, cyclamates are rare additives these days but do > exist.  From memory the lab rats were fed absolutely > ginormous amounts of the substance before they got cancer.

Yeah, but that didn’t keep the FDA from banning them!  Next time I’m in Canada, I may try to stop in a grocery and get some (along with some Splenda if it’s not on the shelves in the US yet), but, since I’ve only been to Canada twice (well, four times if you include a tour at Niagara Falls when I was 2 and again 4 years ago), it’s not likely to be happening! Carol P.

Response:

> Hugs back to you Carol, and many thanks to all that have written back > here for me to read. > Iam starting to accept things a bit better now and I know that I will > ajust to the changes that I make. > Is it ok to drink diet coke as Iam also a coke freak?

SURE! Unfortunately I can’t consume anything with Nutrasweet/Aspartame in it so my choices are really limited. But if you don’t have that problem there are lots of choices for you.  Coca Cola also makes Tab which in someplaces is sweetened with saccharin. BUT for me the only truly cola flavored diet beverage is Slim Jones Key Lime Cola sweetened with Splenda which I order from Pop the Soda Shop http://www.popsoda.com/soda-pop/info.html Carol

Response:

> >Unfortunately I can’t consume anything with Nutrasweet/Aspartame in it >so my choices are really limited. But if you don’t have that problem >there are lots of choices for you.  Coca Cola also makes Tab which in >someplaces is sweetened with saccharin. > Carol, > I’m just curious.  Why can’t you drink anything with Aspartame in it? > Are you allergic, or is there another reason?

Well I’m not sure I’d exactly call it an allergy. I noticed years ago that I felt very dizzy and flu-like when I consumed it. My son would get very pale and sleepy. So we never used it. Even if I didn’t have that problem the bitter aftertaste is awful. To me its not much different from drinking iodine (which I have had to do on occasion). Its no pleasure for me to consume aspartame. Last spring however someone suggested that Wal-mart Seltzer was particularly flavorful so I bought one and missed the aspartame on the label and the flavor was so stsrong I missed the aftertaste, or maybe they’ve improved it in the last 20 years. It was a 16 oz bottle. Fortunately I only sipped it. Because after about 8 oz I recognized the symptoms and double checked the label. About an hour later I had a nosebleed that just would not clot. It lasted at least a half hour. I had just managed to get that taken care of and was laying down when I had an asthema attack. I’m new to asthema in just the last 5 years and thats the first nutrasweet I’ve consumed since the diagnoses. But this attack was not part of the usual pattern. And it was the only one for several months on either side, which is odd.   So maybe I’ve always been slightly allergic and the symptoms are just now getting more severe, or maybe my body just doesn’t like it. I don’t know. But believe me, nothing with nutrasweet in it is worth another nose gusher and an asthma attack as far as I’m concerned so I’ll just pass, thank you. Carol

Response:

<snip> > However I have tried the diet drinks off and on > for years now (it was late 1983 when I had my first aspartame > "experience") and still find that I just can’t tolerate the taste of > aspartame…it’s not so much an AFTER taste (though that’s pretty awful, > too), but the immediate taste in my mouth…the aspartame overwhelms all > other flavors to me.

The only time I have a problem with the taste of diet coke is when I drink it immediately after eating something very sweet – like a birthday cake. And, since I’m not supposed to be eating that kind of stuff, it serves me right, eh? <G> Oh, and I guess that I should mention that the 2+ litres of diet cola that I drink a day is 95% of the caffiene free, sodium free variety. Kelly Politicians and diapers have once thing in common.  They should both be changed regularly and for the same reason.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hugs back to you Carol, and many thanks to all that have written back > here for me to read. > Iam starting to accept things a bit better now and I know that I will > ajust to the changes that I make. > Is it ok to drink diet coke as Iam also a coke freak? >SURE! >Unfortunately I can’t consume anything with Nutrasweet/Aspartame in it >so my choices are really limited. But if you don’t have that problem >there are lots of choices for you.  Coca Cola also makes Tab which in >someplaces is sweetened with saccharin. >BUT for me the only truly cola flavored diet beverage is Slim Jones Key >Lime Cola sweetened with Splenda which I order from Pop the Soda Shop >http://www.popsoda.com/soda-pop/info.html >Carol

Good to hear, I love my coke. I have been drinking diet and caffeine free coke for quite a while, even before diagnoses. Caffeine upsets my anxiety disorder. ) ) ) ) ) ) ) Jenni from Oz.

Response:

>This is one of the best support groups you could ever latch on to but >especially if you are new to diabetes you really ought to latch on to >either in your local library or if you could afford it to join the ADA >for $28.00 dues a year you get a wonderfu magazine called Diabetes >Forecast. I just received my August issue and this one included a little >pamphlet with the title "World’s Best Books" fro the diabetes experts. >Includes first cookbook for ppeople with diabetes and many more. A lot >of information. You won’t be sorry,I promise. Look in your library first >and see what you think. Besides you are then supporting your own cause >as well as getting a font of knowledge.

Iam only new here myself but I have found the people to be very friendly and helpful. I was diagnosed on the 4th of July with type 2. I wanted to ask you what country you are in? Iam in Australia and I have been told I should join diabetes Australia for the same reason as you have joined, good info plus some discounts on supplies. ) ) ) Jenni from Oz.

Response:

Hi All, I just discovered this group and I am very excited about being able to talk with others who have been diagnosed with diabetes. My name is Dot and I live in South Carolina.  I was diagnosed with diabetes last August.  I am Type 2.  Right now, I am controlling it with diet.  The doctor did want me to go on Glucophage, but I decided to try it with the 1800 calorie diabetic diet that the doctor put me on first. I have lost 31 lbs. and my readings are all within normal range as of now.  I have really stuck with this diet, and find that I am not hungry on it, although I do crave certain things that I know I have to be careful of.  My main problem is craving "carbs", but carbs are definitely my enemy so, I really watch them.  It doesn’t mean I don’t eat them, it just means that I eat small portions.  Of course, I do stay away from sugar for the most part.  No sweet tea, sweet drinks, candy. I will eat a product that has sugar in it as long as it is very low in it.  Like a canned good that contains it, but it is 5 grams, or lower, per serving. Unfortunately, this was not caught early enough and I was experiencing some problems in my feet by the time it was caught.  I noticed that my toes would feel numb at times, but I was associating this with some back and hip problems that I have.  I go to a chiropractor for these problems.  I did have blood tests done through my primary doctor, but for some reason these tests were not coming back as abnormal.  In fact, the tests were coming back showing the "same" figure of 86 (which is perfectly normal) almost every time they were done.  My doctor grew suspicious over this, and the fact that I had some symptoms of dry skin, and I was putting on weight.   After he ordered a two hour glucose test and it came back at 154, then we knew that I was definitely diabetic. Since I have gone on the diet, and lost weight, all of the symptoms in my feet have disappeared.  I do notice just a slight numbness at times, but nothing like it was doing.  Diabetes does run in my family.  I have two uncles (one maternal and one parternal) that both have it.  Also, my first cousin (son of my maternal uncle) had it and all three of his children have it. I do test my blood sugars everyday.  I am using an Accu-Chek Advantage and have found it very easy to use and read.  I do fastings (first thing in the morning), before I eat and also two hours after I eat.  I do check before bedtime off and on as well. I look forward to talking with y’all. Best, Dot

Response:

Welcome to the group, Dot. I know what you mean about craving. I just came from the mall & I was craving a candy bar. I just had the new Snickers Cruncher. It’s the first candy bar I’ve had in years & it was great. It will be years before I have another candy bar too.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi All, > I just discovered this group and I am very excited about being able to > talk with others who have been diagnosed with diabetes. > My name is Dot and I live in South Carolina.  I was diagnosed with > diabetes last August.  I am Type 2.  Right now, I am controlling it with > diet.  The doctor did want me to go on Glucophage, but I decided to try > it with the 1800 calorie diabetic diet that the doctor put me on first. > I have lost 31 lbs. and my readings are all within normal range as of > now.  I have really stuck with this diet, and find that I am not hungry > on it, although I do crave certain things that I know I have to be > careful of.  My main problem is craving "carbs", but carbs are > definitely my enemy so, I really watch them.  It doesn’t mean I don’t > eat them, it just means that I eat small portions.  Of course, I do stay > away from sugar for the most part.  No sweet tea, sweet drinks, candy. > I will eat a product that has sugar in it as long as it is very low in > it.  Like a canned good that contains it, but it is 5 grams, or lower, > per serving. > Unfortunately, this was not caught early enough and I was experiencing > some problems in my feet by the time it was caught.  I noticed that my > toes would feel numb at times, but I was associating this with some back > and hip problems that I have.  I go to a chiropractor for these > problems.  I did have blood tests done through my primary doctor, but > for some reason these tests were not coming back as abnormal.  In fact, > the tests were coming back showing the "same" figure of 86 (which is > perfectly normal) almost every time they were done.  My doctor grew > suspicious over this, and the fact that I had some symptoms of dry skin, > and I was putting on weight.   After he ordered a two hour glucose test > and it came back at 154, then we knew that I was definitely diabetic. > Since I have gone on the diet, and lost weight, all of the symptoms in > my feet have disappeared.  I do notice just a slight numbness at times, > but nothing like it was doing.  Diabetes does run in my family.  I have > two uncles (one maternal and one parternal) that both have it.  Also, my > first cousin (son of my maternal uncle) had it and all three of his > children have it. > I do test my blood sugars everyday.  I am using an Accu-Chek Advantage > and have found it very easy to use and read.  I do fastings (first thing > in the morning), before I eat and also two hours after I eat.  I do > check before bedtime off and on as well. > I look forward to talking with y’all. > Best, > Dot

Response:

> Welcome to the group, Dot. I know what you mean about craving. I just came > from the mall & I was craving a candy bar. I just had the new Snickers > Cruncher. It’s the first candy bar I’ve had in years & it was great. It will > be years before I have another candy bar too.

Think of it this way,,,,,,,,Halloween is just about nearly round the corner.

Response:

Please, I don’t want to think about Halloween. My younger grandson lives a few doors down from me, & last Halloween he offered to share is goodies with me. Not exactly good for a diabetic. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Welcome to the group, Dot. I know what you mean about craving. I just came > from the mall & I was craving a candy bar. I just had the new Snickers > Cruncher. It’s the first candy bar I’ve had in years & it was great. It will > be years before I have another candy bar too. > Think of it this way,,,,,,,,Halloween is just about nearly round the corner.

Response:

Hi Dot, welcome to the group. You seem to be doing the right things at the moment.  I also get pains and nubness in a particular toe when my blood glucose level (bg) is too high.  I normally have no pain when my bgs are good.  The group will tell you that the best thing you can do is to test your blood regularly.  This gives you the information necessary to take control of this illness we have. You have done really well to lose so much weight… there are many in this group who are just so envious of your strong self will!!  Perhaps you can tell us how you have done this!! If you can lose enough weight to fall into the normal range you may find bg control very easy (although you should still test, diabetes never leaves us), and you will probably feel great too. Good luck!! (oh and checkout our website… maybe send a piccy and a bio in???) Martin — T2 since 1998, (Insulin User Since 2000). See the web site: http://www.asduk.org.uk

: : > Welcome to the group, Dot. I know what you mean about craving. I just came : > from the mall & I was craving a candy bar. I just had the new Snickers : > Cruncher. It’s the first candy bar I’ve had in years & it was great. It will : > be years before I have another candy bar too. : > : : Think of it this way,,,,,,,,Halloween is just about nearly round the corner. :

Response:

Hi! Thank you for the welcome! These cravings are something aren’t they!  I know it sure makes it harder to stay on this diabetic diet when they do hit me.  I don’t have a problem during the day, but the problem (when it happens) seems to be at night.   That candy bar sure does sound delicious!  I can’t remember the last time I had one!  I do remember that when I did eat one (Snickers were my favorite!) that I felt really, really bad.  I didn’t realize that I had diabetes at that time.  There should have been warning bells going off in my head, but I just thought I had some kind of stomach upset at the time.  Little did I know! Best, Dot – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Welcome to the group, Dot. I know what you mean about craving. I just came > from the mall & I was craving a candy bar. I just had the new Snickers > Cruncher. It’s the first candy bar I’ve had in years & it was great. It will > be years before I have another candy bar too. > Hi All, > I just discovered this group and I am very excited about being able to > talk with others who have been diagnosed with diabetes. > My name is Dot and I live in South Carolina.  I was diagnosed with > diabetes last August.  I am Type 2.  Right now, I am controlling it with > diet.  The doctor did want me to go on Glucophage, but I decided to try > it with the 1800 calorie diabetic diet that the doctor put me on first. > I have lost 31 lbs. and my readings are all within normal range as of > now.  I have really stuck with this diet, and find that I am not hungry > on it, although I do crave certain things that I know I have to be > careful of.  My main problem is craving "carbs", but carbs are > definitely my enemy so, I really watch them.  It doesn’t mean I don’t > eat them, it just means that I eat small portions.  Of course, I do stay > away from sugar for the most part.  No sweet tea, sweet drinks, candy. > I will eat a product that has sugar in it as long as it is very low in > it.  Like a canned good that contains it, but it is 5 grams, or lower, > per serving. > Unfortunately, this was not caught early enough and I was experiencing > some problems in my feet by the time it was caught.  I noticed that my > toes would feel numb at times, but I was associating this with some back > and hip problems that I have.  I go to a chiropractor for these > problems.  I did have blood tests done through my primary doctor, but > for some reason these tests were not coming back as abnormal.  In fact, > the tests were coming back showing the "same" figure of 86 (which is > perfectly normal) almost every time they were done.  My doctor grew > suspicious over this, and the fact that I had some symptoms of dry skin, > and I was putting on weight.   After he ordered a two hour glucose test > and it came back at 154, then we knew that I was definitely diabetic. > Since I have gone on the diet, and lost weight, all of the symptoms in > my feet have disappeared.  I do notice just a slight numbness at times, > but nothing like it was doing.  Diabetes does run in my family.  I have > two uncles (one maternal and one parternal) that both have it.  Also, my > first cousin (son of my maternal uncle) had it and all three of his > children have it. > I do test my blood sugars everyday.  I am using an Accu-Chek Advantage > and have found it very easy to use and read.  I do fastings (first thing > n the morning), before I eat and also two hours after I eat.  I do > check before bedtime off and on as well. > I look forward to talking with y’all. > Best, > Dot

Response:

Hi Martin, Thank you for the welcome! I totally agree with all of you about testing our bgs often.  I test at least twice a day. If I feel a little off, I will test more than that. Martin, I notice that my toes appear to be a problem, especially my big toe.  Also, the bottoms of my feet, but they are nothing like they used to be before I went on the diet.  Actually, it is becoming less and less and I sure hope that continues. I think that I have been able to stick with this diabetic diet due to having had breast cancer twice.  I know that sounds strange, but having had cancer has really helped me to want to do everything that I can to control the diabetes, and be able to stick around a little longer.  We also just had our first grandchild 17 months ago, and that has been a big incentive to want to do everything that I can to be here to see her grow into a big girl!  All I have to do is picture her face, and that is all it takes to keep me from giving into those cravings.  I also get to baby-sit her twice a week and this gives me even more of an incentive!  Life is definitely "Grand"!  <smile> I will be glad to check your website out and will also send you a pic and a bio!  Thank you for asking me to do that! Best, Dot "The only disability is a bad attitude"                                Scott Hamilton – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hi Dot, > welcome to the group. > You seem to be doing the right things at the moment.  I also get pains > and nubness in a particular toe when my blood glucose level (bg) is > too high.  I normally have no pain when my bgs are good.  The group > will tell you that the best thing you can do is to test your blood > regularly.  This gives you the information necessary to take control > of this illness we have. > You have done really well to lose so much weight… there are many in > this group who are just so envious of your strong self will!!  Perhaps > you can tell us how you have done this!! > If you can lose enough weight to fall into the normal range you may > find bg control very easy (although you should still test, diabetes > never leaves us), and you will probably feel great too. > Good luck!! (oh and checkout our website… maybe send a piccy and a > bio in???) > Martin > — > T2 since 1998, (Insulin User Since 2000). > See the web site: http://www.asduk.org.uk > : > :Welcome to the group, Dot. I know what you mean about craving. I > just came rom the mall & I was craving a candy bar. I just had the new > Snickers Cruncher. It’s the first candy bar I’ve had in years & it was > great. It will be years before I have another candy bar too. > : > Think of it this way,,,,,,,,Halloween is just about nearly round the > corner. > :

Response:

> Hi All, > I just discovered this group and I am very excited about being able to > talk with others who have been diagnosed with diabetes.

<snip> Welcome! — Type 2 http://www.redshift.com/~juliebove/

Response:

Welcome,Dot, it is nice to have some one with your positive attitude join us. Please feel free to join in dicussions, ask questions and make yourself at home. We also have a chat room, and you are most welcome to join us there also. Annette. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hi! > Thank you for the welcome! > These cravings are something aren’t they!  I know it sure makes it harder to > stay on this diabetic diet when they do hit me.  I don’t have a problem during > the day, but the problem (when it happens) seems to be at night.   That candy > bar sure does sound delicious!  I can’t remember the last time I had one!  I do > remember that when I did eat one (Snickers were my favorite!) that I felt > really, really bad.  I didn’t realize that I had diabetes at that time.  There > should have been warning bells going off in my head, but I just thought I had > some kind of stomach upset at the time.  Little did I know! > Best, > Dot > Welcome to the group, Dot. I know what you mean about craving. I just came > from the mall & I was craving a candy bar. I just had the new Snickers > Cruncher. It’s the first candy bar I’ve had in years & it was great. It will > be years before I have another candy bar too. > Hi All, > I just discovered this group and I am very excited about being able to > talk with others who have been diagnosed with diabetes. > My name is Dot and I live in South Carolina.  I was diagnosed with > diabetes last August.  I am Type 2.  Right now, I am controlling it with > diet.  The doctor did want me to go on Glucophage, but I decided to try > it with the 1800 calorie diabetic diet that the doctor put me on first. > I have lost 31 lbs. and my readings are all within normal range as of > now.  I have really stuck with this diet, and find that I am not hungry > on it, although I do crave certain things that I know I have to be > careful of.  My main problem is craving "carbs", but carbs are > definitely my enemy so, I really watch them.  It doesn’t mean I don’t > eat them, it just means that I eat small portions.  Of course, I do stay > away from sugar for the most part.  No sweet tea, sweet drinks, candy. > I will eat a product that has sugar in it as long as it is very low in > it.  Like a canned good that contains it, but it is 5 grams, or lower, > per serving. > Unfortunately, this was not caught early enough and I was experiencing > some problems in my feet by the time it was caught.  I noticed that my > toes would feel numb at times, but I was associating this with some back > and hip problems that I have.  I go to a chiropractor for these > problems.  I did have blood tests done through my primary doctor, but > for some reason these tests were not coming back as abnormal.  In fact, > the tests were coming back showing the "same" figure of 86 (which is > perfectly normal) almost every time they were done.  My doctor grew > suspicious over this, and the fact that I had some symptoms of dry skin, > and I was putting on weight.   After he ordered a two hour glucose test > and it came back at 154, then we knew that I was definitely diabetic. > Since I have gone on the diet, and lost weight, all of the symptoms in > my feet have disappeared.  I do notice just a slight numbness at times, > but nothing like it was doing.  Diabetes does run in my family.  I have > two uncles (one maternal and one parternal) that both have it.  Also, my > first cousin (son of my maternal uncle) had it and all three of his > children have it. > I do test my blood sugars everyday.  I am using an Accu-Chek Advantage > and have found it very easy to use and read.  I do fastings (first thing > n the morning), before I eat and also two hours after I eat.  I do > check before bedtime off and on as well. > I look forward to talking with y’all. > Best, > Dot

Response:

Hi Annette! Thanks for the welcome!  I really appreciate it.  I have already gone in on some posts, and with all of the reading that I have been doing, I am learning a lot from the group.  It is nice to know that so many have so much knowledge and are willing to share that knowledge with others. Thanks again! Best, Dot "The only disability is a bad attitude"                             Scott Hamilton – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Welcome,Dot, it is nice to have some one with your positive attitude join us. > Please feel free to join in dicussions, ask questions and make yourself at > home.  We also have a chat room, and you are most welcome to join us there also. > Annette. > Hi! > Thank you for the welcome! > These cravings are something aren’t they!  I know it sure makes it harder to > stay on this diabetic diet when they do hit me.  I don’t have a problem during > the day, but the problem (when it happens) seems to be at night.   That candy > bar sure does sound delicious!  I can’t remember the last time I had one!  I do > remember that when I did eat one (Snickers were my favorite!) that I felt > really, really bad.  I didn’t realize that I had diabetes at that time.  There > should have been warning bells going off in my head, but I just thought I had > some kind of stomach upset at the time.  Little did I know! > Best, > Dot > Welcome to the group, Dot. I know what you mean about craving. I just came > from the mall & I was craving a candy bar. I just had the new Snickers > Cruncher. It’s the first candy bar I’ve had in years & it was great. It will > be years before I have another candy bar too. > Hi All, > I just discovered this group and I am very excited about being able to > talk with others who have been diagnosed with diabetes. > My name is Dot and I live in South Carolina.  I was diagnosed with > diabetes last August.  I am Type 2.  Right now, I am controlling it with > diet.  The doctor did want me to go on Glucophage, but I decided to try > it with the 1800 calorie diabetic diet that the doctor put me on first. > I have lost 31 lbs. and my readings are all within normal range as of > now.  I have really stuck with this diet, and find that I am not hungry > on it, although I do crave certain things that I know I have to be > careful of.  My main problem is craving "carbs", but carbs are > definitely my enemy so, I really watch them.  It doesn’t mean I don’t > eat them, it just means that I eat small portions.  Of course, I do stay > away from sugar for the most part.  No sweet tea, sweet drinks, candy. > I will eat a product that has sugar in it as long as it is very low in it.  Like a canned > good that contains it, but it is 5 grams, or lower, per serving. > Unfortunately, this was not caught early enough and I was experiencing > some problems in my feet by the time it was caught.  I noticed that my > toes would feel numb at times, but I was associating this with some back > and hip problems that I have.  I go to a chiropractor for these > problems.  I did have blood tests done through my primary doctor, but > for some reason these tests were not coming back as abnormal.  In fact, > the tests were coming back showing the "same" figure of 86 (which is > perfectly normal) almost every time they were done.  My doctor grew > suspicious over this, and the fact that I had some symptoms of dry skin, > and I was putting on weight.   After he ordered a two hour glucose test > and it came back at 154, then we knew that I was definitely diabetic. > Since I have gone on the diet, and lost weight, all of the symptoms in > my feet have disappeared.  I do notice just a slight numbness at times, > but nothing like it was doing.  Diabetes does run in my family.  I have > two uncles (one maternal and one parternal) that both have it.  Also, my > first cousin (son of my maternal uncle) had it and all three of his > children have it. > I do test my blood sugars everyday.  I am using an Accu-Chek Advantage > and have found it very easy to use and read.  I do fastings (first thing in the morning), > before I eat and also two hours after I eat.  I do check before bedtime off and on as > well. > I look forward to talking with y’all. > Best, > Dot

Response:

Hi Julie! Thank you for the welcome! Best, Dot "The only disability is a bad attitude"                               Scott Hamilton – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hi All, > I just discovered this group and I am very excited about being able to > talk with others who have been diagnosed with diabetes. > <snip> > Welcome! > — > Type 2 > http://www.redshift.com/~juliebove/

Response:

Welcome Dot. Sounds like you’re doing great. I’m also managing with diet and some exercise. Carol – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Best, > Dot

Response:

Hi Carol! Thank you for the welcome!  I am sure going to hang in there with this diet and hope that is what it takes to keep these bgs within normal range.  I am glad to hear that this is working for you, too! Best, Dot "The only disability is a bad attitude"                              Scott Hamilton – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Welcome Dot. Sounds like you’re doing great. I’m also managing with diet > and some exercise. > Carol > <Best, >   Dot>

Response:

Hi all!  I’m new the group, been lurking for some time.  A little background. My husband and I have four dogs.  13 year old female chow mix, Ginger.  16 year old terrier mix female, Samantha.  12 year old female shih tzu female, Cocoa. 15 month old German shepherd / dane mix, male, Sage, a proud boy at 114 pounds.  All of our dogs are spayed and neutured.  All are house dogs, and all are rescue dogs.  I am quite proud of the fact that we adopted Samantha when she was 12 years old, had a bad case of round worms, ear mites, severly under weight, and had been abused.  She also has anxiety and would pee every time we left the house.  We have 3 cats, all rescues.  An iguana, do you even have to ask, resuce.  10 birds, most rescue. A hamster, rescue.  I have also recently started working with North Central Indiana Spay / Neuter.  I have 5 foster cats in my home right now waiting to be adopted.  I’ve decided that if God is a dog or cat, I’m in for sure when my time comes.  Well thats about it.  Hope I will be welcome here! Shauna  

Response:

WELCOME WELCOME, with those rescue credits to your name, I’m sure you have a 1st place parking spot reserved on the other side of the bridge. Marla Belzowski & the LegendHold Collie Clan

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi all!  I’m new the group, been lurking for some time.  A little background. > My husband and I have four dogs.  13 year old female chow mix, Ginger.  16 year > old terrier mix female, Samantha.  12 year old female shih tzu female, Cocoa. > 15 month old German shepherd / dane mix, male, Sage, a proud boy at 114 pounds. >  All of our dogs are spayed and neutured.  All are house dogs, and all are > rescue dogs.  I am quite proud of the fact that we adopted Samantha when she > was 12 years old, had a bad case of round worms, ear mites, severly under > weight, and had been abused.  She also has anxiety and would pee every time we > left the house.  We have 3 cats, all rescues.  An iguana, do you even have to > ask, resuce.  10 birds, most rescue. A hamster, rescue.  I have also recently > started working with North Central Indiana Spay / Neuter.  I have 5 foster cats > in my home right now waiting to be adopted.  I’ve decided that if God is a dog > or cat, I’m in for sure when my time comes.  Well thats about it.  Hope I will > be welcome here! > Shauna

Response:

Hi all!  I’m new the group, been lurking for some time.  A little background. My husband and I have four dogs.  13 year old female chow mix, Ginger.  16 year old terrier mix female, Samantha.  12 year old female shih tzu female, Cocoa. 15 month old German shepherd / dane mix, male, Sage, a proud boy at 114 pounds.  All of our dogs are spayed and neutured.  All are house dogs, and all are rescue dogs.  I am quite proud of the fact that we adopted Samantha when she was 12 years old, had a bad case of round worms, ear mites, severly under weight, and had been abused.  She also has anxiety and would pee every time we left the house.  We have 3 cats, all rescues.  An iguana, do you even have to ask, resuce.  10 birds, most rescue. A hamster, rescue.  I have also recently started working with North Central Indiana Spay / Neuter.  I have 5 foster cats in my home right now waiting to be adopted.  I’ve decided that if God is a dog or cat, I’m in for sure when my time comes.  Well thats about it.  Hope I will be welcome here! Shauna  

Response:

WELCOME WELCOME, with those rescue credits to your name, I’m sure you have a 1st place parking spot reserved on the other side of the bridge. Marla Belzowski & the LegendHold Collie Clan

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi all!  I’m new the group, been lurking for some time.  A little background. > My husband and I have four dogs.  13 year old female chow mix, Ginger.  16 year > old terrier mix female, Samantha.  12 year old female shih tzu female, Cocoa. > 15 month old German shepherd / dane mix, male, Sage, a proud boy at 114 pounds. >  All of our dogs are spayed and neutured.  All are house dogs, and all are > rescue dogs.  I am quite proud of the fact that we adopted Samantha when she > was 12 years old, had a bad case of round worms, ear mites, severly under > weight, and had been abused.  She also has anxiety and would pee every time we > left the house.  We have 3 cats, all rescues.  An iguana, do you even have to > ask, resuce.  10 birds, most rescue. A hamster, rescue.  I have also recently > started working with North Central Indiana Spay / Neuter.  I have 5 foster cats > in my home right now waiting to be adopted.  I’ve decided that if God is a dog > or cat, I’m in for sure when my time comes.  Well thats about it.  Hope I will > be welcome here! > Shauna

Response:

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